The relationship of biblical prophecy to current events in the Middle East was raised by the discussion in another thread on Ezekiel 38-39. In wishing to pursue the subject, and in view of the pressing importance of Middle East politics - not just for the theology of the church but for its very survival and that of its message, I felt a separate discussion thread was needed.
At the time of posting this I am half way through Robert Fisk’s monumental “The Great Battle for Civilisation - the Conquest of the Middle East” which is an overview of the consequences for today of the post-1918 carve-up of that region. You feel you have actually been to most of the places mentioned after reading it (Fisk has lived in the region and reported most of the conflicts since the Israeli invasion of Lebanon). The book is a follow-up to the equally acclaimed “Pity the Nation” - prompted by the 1982 Israeli invasion and Chatila/Sabrah refugee camp massacres.
I wanted to add to my previous comments that I would now wish to reserve judgement on the Sharon/Olmert ‘peace’ attempts, in view of the historically verifiable repeated violations of peace undertakings by the Israelis since the ill-fated Oslo Accords - largely ignored, or condemned verbally but connived at in practice by the West.
But even more than this, it is somewhat alarming that swathes of the evangelical community (not represented by any contributor to this site, as far as I can tell), naively accept a potted version of biblical eschatology in relation to the Middle East which puts them firmly on the side of injustice and post-colonial oppression, as far as most inhabitants of the region are concerned.
More particularly in relation to the current crisis brewing with Iran, Britain and the US especially have an appalling history of interference and misinformation going back to the 1950’s, and especially during the relatively more recent Iran/Iraq war, which at some stage needs to be confronted. It’s time that the smoke-screen of pop eschatology that is thrown over the middle east was recognised for what it is. Christians should observe with discernment the current demarche over Iran and its nuclear programme - holding sceptically to media commentary on the one hand, and studying history of the region in detail on the other, preferably ignoring eschatological systems concerning the antichrist and apocalyptic ‘last days’ scenarios.
I also feel that it is time we stopped demonising Islam - which does not mean holding a critical towards it - and took far more seriously and discerningly the biblical role of prophecy as upholding justice and supporting the needs of the oppressed across the whole world, the Middle East included. I use the word ‘discerningly’ since the self-proclaimed attempt of Britain and the US to achieve just that in Iraq looked questionable even before the descent of that nation into the chaos it is now experiencing.
Why should the contemporary prophetic voice be left to politicians, revolutionary mullahs/imams and the Christian right? This would involve taking a critical view of the pronouncements and actions of our governments, past and present, in Britain and the US especially.
Quite seriously, what does the church, emergent or otherwise, have to say about the current Middle East situation, based on its own scriptures, which has anything useful at all to contribute? Or are we just going to be ineffectual observers - organisers of never-ending tourist trips to the ‘holy land’, which whisk us past the real needs and sufferings of people who live there?
Political Religion
Or is it religoius politics? They are inseparable in human history, so there’s no reason to expect that to change.
You will get little dialog from those who aren’t leftist, because your basic question will appear to all cast in leftist terms, with leftist concerns. Slap the label on you and the discussion is closed. I am neither left nor emergent, and I’m willing to talk about it only because I am no longer a Zionist Dispensationalist. There are precious few American Evangelicals who have left it.
My personal exodus from that land came when I found myself willing to find truth at the cost of leaving my comfort zone. Then I learned the history of Dispensationalism, and how it was sold to my brother American Evangelicals. I do write and speak of such things, yet I must be diplomatic, lest I lose my chance to be heard.
To answer your question: It is not a question whether we are ineffectual in fighting this big lie. I suspect this is one of those moments when God has given them over to these vile ideas so that sin will have it’s full fruit in them. He is shaking His Body, and I am left wondering who will survive, since the consequences may yet bring on a disaster far larger than we dare anticipate.
Not a dispensationalist.
Not a dispensationalist. But I am a Zionist. For eschatological reasons? Not at all. Simply because Israel has a legal and moral right to the land. Plain and simple. Of course in reverse, most will thus cast me as a right wing anti-Palestinian non-compassionate intellectual dwarf. For the best articulation of the reasons that I hold my position, I would refer you to this excellent book authored by well-known liberal Harvard Law-Professor Alan Dershowitz.
De-linking
I don’t have a problem with de-linking Zionism from Dispensationalism. However, I do have a problem with your recommendation. Having read much already from Prof. Dershowitz’s hand, I find he has zero credibility with me. Since I’m truly a nobody, I’m sure he won’t mind.
Regarding Zionism itself, you may cast me into the outer darkness with the conspiracy theorists. My viewpoint on Zionism arises from reading about such interesting stories as where the Rothschilds come from, and what they have to do with Zionism. I prefer the viewpoint of Neturei Karta and their ilk on the question of any modern state of Israel.
The mess in Palestine is not simply a matter of which side is right, because I’m quite certain it is neither; there are no innocent victims aside from young children. Even that sentiment is Western, when we are discussing two Eastern peoples. To some degree, how it got this way may not matter. The better question is: What can we do now? What we see on the ground now is not good, and there is precious little to praise.
Yes, you're right, by
Yes, you’re right, by identifying with Neturei Karta you have significantly marginalized yourself in not only my eyes, but anyone who knows what extremists they are.
Regardless of what personal feelings you have about Dershowitz, his information is what needs discrediting, not him. IMO, you won’t be able to do that.
Israel's right to 'the land'
Joel you speak of Israel’s “legal and moral right to the land.” Which land do you mean - land which was legally purchased by immigrant settlers? Land which was obtained by ethnic cleansing in 1948 and beyond? Or land which was summarily occupied to the exclusion of non-Jewish inhabitants (as with many of the ‘West Bank’ settlements)?
But from a Christian point of view, never mind the original UN resolution based on borders which are no longer recognised by Israel (and which she is required to recognise by UN resolution 244), how can we feel comfortable with a land based on a blatantly racist, discriminatory ideology?
When I look at the Bantustan of misery, poverty and villification which is today’s Palestine, and the subsequent suffering created by the West through its interference in the entire Middle East, it doesn’t surprise me that certain groups there want to blow us all up.
Could you provide some justification for your statement that “Israel has a legal and moral right to the land. Plain and simple.”?
Jesus gave the answer
Jesus gave Israel the answer. All they need to do is give thier enemy what their enemy asks of them. Then give them some more. The goal of any one following Jesus should be to see their emenmies prosper even if it means propering from the land they take from you. Developing love for your neighbors and those that hate you is the key to spiritual bliss. Only pride stands in the way. As soon as Jews, Muslims, Christians, and others learn to die to their attachment to land, riches, self gratification and pride then wars will no longer happen.
As long as everyone involved is looking for a warrior messiah to come or “come-again” to give their particular group earthly justice then war will continue.
Enemies are defeated when we take away the attachment that we have to the things they want from us. If we are attached to land and material possessions then our enemies hold power over us. Jesus was telling us that we can eliminate their power by eliminating our attachment to the things our enemies crave. Let them have material things because they hold no real value. Land, riches, and possessions are a curse so let them have it.
Jesus’ revolt against the empire was one done by transforming minds not through war and death. Let your enemy have your possessions then spend your life transforming their minds to see the truth.