The lone emerging church

I wonder just how many people are out there in the western world that within themselves are what we would call emerging (or post-modern or a new kind of Christian or whatever…), that are doing this all on their own? Perhaps they belong to a very modern or traditionlist church and just don’t have anyone to explore there emerging faith with. I speak a little bit from experience here, i do have friends who are part of the emergent church movement but they are few in number. On top of this i go to a fairly modern church. I least have a few people to turn to and discuss/pray/dialogue with but there must be some who dont have even that, probably quite a lot in rural areas.

How can we help and be there for our brothers and sisters?

This site is great for bringing people together but would lone emergent rangers think to even look for it? Would these people even think to look for others of there kind or would they just think they were strange and become downtrodden?

How does the church as a whole become more accessible to itself, let alone the big wide world?

Is this a problem?

What are your thoughts?

Oliver

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Comments

Re: The lone emerging church

Hi Oliver,

This is my first post on here, so let me first introduce myself :)

My name is Barry, I’m 18 years old and live in the UK. I grew up, being taught the doctrine of Jehovah’s Witnesses by my Mother, which although unfortunately has given me preconceived thoughts on the Scriptures, has given me a good knowledge of The Divine Name, and the scriptures in general; which I am grateful of.

About 2 years ago, I realised that the priests in all the main churches, of all denominations aren’t encouraging ‘personal’ bible study… all of them are doing the opposite. It’s seems like it’s either, you follow their interpretation of the scripture, no questions asked; or you’re viewed as some sort of apostate/anti-christ type figure… either that, or it’s the type of Church where anything goes, in which case, they’re not following the scriptures. Then I came across a scripture at Luke 11:9, where the Messiah says to ask Elohim, and He will answer… He didn’t say to ask a man for understand; and since I’ve taken this onboard, left the church, and started studying on my own; asking Elohim for help, I’ve progressed, and learned alot - yay!

Anyway…

I didn’t even think that there might be people like me; searching for, and trying to build a new, true church, until I came across this site completely by chance. I’ve never even heard of an ‘emergent church’ until now. I think if the emerging church can do away with all the falsehoods coming in from it’s founders previous faiths, and is willing to completely rethink EVERYTHING, embrace truth, and ask Elohim for guidance on every matter, YHWH will guide those searching for truth to this Church.

It’s great to find this place, and I look forward to getting to know you all.

With Brotherly Love, and Blessings,

Barry

Re: The lone emerging church

I’m an “Emerging Catholic” who grew up conservative evangelical and who now subscribes to The Christian Century magazine so I think I have a pretty good awareness of at least four categories of Christian thought. I’d say it’s a toss-up whether someone has really heard “emerging” as a real term if they are totally going it alone. But I reckon those people are doing Google searches on theology, postmodernism, narrative theology, deconstruction, community, liturgy, etc., so they’ll make their way here or somewhere else eventually. As de Chardin said, “Above all, trust in the slow work of God.”

Re: The lone emerging church

I’ve only just become aware of the terms “emergent” or “emerging church”. I was aware of the term “post-evangelical”, but when I last tried to find out about this sort of thing four years ago there was very little around. I found out about the emergent church movement completely by accident while doing research on a fundamentalist “think-tank” that helps members to spam “letters to the editor” columns with a web based mailer. The name of the most promanent spammer is the same as that of an emergent church blogger… God works in mysterious ways!

In my experience there are large numbers of evangelicals who would be interested in the emerging church but do not have the courage to step out of their evangelical box for fear of losing their faith.

Evangelicalism has successfully blocked off many avenues that seekers could otherwise use without having already made the decision to look outside their Christian community. Chistian book shops here only stock safe Evangelical books; they would not even order any books by Robert Funk. Church directories only list churches that sign up to very specific statements of faith. Higher education in philosophy or theology (outside of approved colleges) was universally frowned on. We are trained with automatic responses to many red flag words which signalled non-Christian thinking, including postmodern, deconstructivism, liturgy from your above list, along with Methodist, athiest, devil worshipper… :-). In order to seek you have to have already mentally left the church.

Some of my friends actually left their churches so they could start searching, but they ended up being so frightened or alienated by all the “heretical” opinions they found that they ran back to very conservative Willow Creek style churches. I don’t think they found anwers to any of their questions, but at least their souls are safe?

Proposal for evangelical-seeker-friendly site

While I was thinking about what happened to my seeker friends (see previous comment), I had an idea for a place that may have helped them.

For most people I know, I think the internet is the only hope for being able to seek safely without leaving their church. However, there needs to be a safe place where they can make their first step without being scared away. Here are some ideas for how to do this.

It should not use any of the red flag words - not even postmodern.

It should not question the inerrant “literal” interpretation of the Bible, the Trinity or other sacred cows of evangelical theology. Maybe creation theories and millenial theories should come under that heading to.

The purpose would be to provide the forum for supportive networks that allow initial questioning and gaining new perspectives. People can reground their faith in God and the real world rather than in creeds, anti-gay/persectuted church rhetoric, Bible drills (if you don’t know this Sunday School game, it was essentially practice for following an enthusiastic preacher hopping around the Bible between proof-texts).

This evangelical-seeker-friendly community will allow people to stay in their churches in the real world without feeling like hypocrites, but they will also have a way out if God is leading them that way. They can experiment with questioning and other forbidden practices in a safe and non-combative environment. If/when they are ready to question outside the limited scope of the site, there are already places like opensourcetheology that they can migrate to.

There should be no agenda hidden or otherwise to encourage into the emergent church. It should be a supportive nursery for people trying to grow beyond their current chruch situation. I mean this to be in contrast to the evangelical seeker services in which the church and its dogma is the true focus with the seeker merely being the raw material to be processed.

I don’t think an evangelical questioner friendly place as I’ve described exists yet, though opensourcetheology.net is much less threatening and more fun than most places I’ve seen.

Re: The lone emerging church

I live in the bible belt (a third world country when it comes to theology).  I feel pretty alone.  I don’t really have anyone to discuss this stuff with.  My wife has tried to read a few books, but she just doesn’t have the desire to talk theology for more than 5 minutes. I go to church or small home groups and just keep my mouth shut becasue I don’t agree with much that is said.  I found a great deal of comfort in Brian Mclaren’s book a generous orthodoxy because it helped me realize that I don’t need to try and convert all my fundamentalist friends into intelligent "truth seekers".  They have to deal with how their theology impacts their ability to love and be loved.  I have my own issues, so I don’t try to "convert" them or convict them.  That is not my responsibility.

I give books to all my friends hoping to generate discussion, but nobody that I know reads anything longer than a cartoon strip.  They won’t do it.  I have yet to find one person in my church or circle of friends that will get through a single theological book that is outside the "norm" for southern conservative fundamentalists.

Re: The lone emerging church

Thanks for being so open about your loneliness and frustrations. The best advice I can give is to move to London. If that’s not an option, be the person God has made you to be – with all your questions and perceptions - in the place where he has put you. Learn what you can; teach what you can with humility, patience and love; ask questions. The emerging church needs to be in dialogue with southern conservative fundamentalists. Share your experiences with us from time to time. This is going to be a long journey.

nothing to say to that

there’s absolutely nothing to say to that mike!

Re: nothing to say to that

John,

I can’t work the site’s software so I’ve no idea what you might be replying to or even whether this acheives a posting. Either you saw nothing or my ‘signature’ got reproduced as a subscription.

I’m a computer novice but if I can get the site to operate for me I would love to engage in ‘emerging church’.

Mike 

Re: nothing to say to that

Hello Mike

I was replying to a blank post. After my marathon conversation with Richard, your post provided opportunity for a little light relief.

If you want to describe any difficulties you are having, I or any others will happily try to assist. You got the last post to ‘show up’ so you seem to be on the right track…

Shalom! - John

Re: nothing to say to that

I am totally new to this site and through recommendation I looked and the first thing I found struck immediately at thoughts which typified all of my spiritual development over the last few years.

On my own I hadn’t found any single all embracing title but your readers have.

It’s called EMERGING CHURCH and Oliver’s take on 25th Oct suits me just fine.

So now I’m looking to you good folk to hear me out, bear with me, and help to polish off my rough edges.

Please bear in mind that in my enthusiasm to get cracking I have only had a skimp through more recent postings and I will probably be saying things already covered or discredited but all that will resolve as we settle in.

Through a series of experiences I ceased church going a while back but held on to the basics of my fundamentalist faith. Eventually I returned to selective attendances but only as part of a process of complete re-appraisal from a basis of almost total freedom from preconception.

As a result I accede to no articles of constitution or statements of faith and am therefore unacceptable for ‘membership’ of any church from lowest fundamentalism to highest Catholicity.

I abhor denominationalism and believe that as a member of the Body of Christ by virtue of saving faith I have a duty and a right to attend the nearest church to wherever God places me but I do so with considerable isolation because my re-appraisal resulted in radically unconventional convictions.

So you can imagine what anticipation emanates from the prospect of ‘emerging church’ as a supplement (not a replacement you understand otherwise that would be nothing more than a perpetuation of denominationalism). But will my radical convictions also preclude me from ‘emerging church’ I wonder? So here goes with a copy and paste from the summary page of my website after which I will sit back and see what comes.

SUMMARY

 

 

My conviction is that Christianity strayed steadily ‘off course’ during the 300 year period shortly following Christ’s resurrection. During which time man progressively reverted to his instinctive reliance on formal written definition in preference to Christ’s newly introduced ‘Way of The Spirit’.

 

In essence, the inveterate propagators of ‘religion’ overwhelmed the genuine adherents of ‘true Faith’.

 

Roman Catholicism, being the epitome of ‘Religion’, the natural expression of man’s instinct, and a much more readily acceptable ‘badge’ in the corridors of power, was the inevitable outcome.

 

The subsequent suppression by Roman Catholicism of all other forms of Christian faith, was then ultimately, but only partially, redressed by the Protestant Revolution of the 17/18th century.

 

The re-establishing of the principal Protestant tenement, namely justification by faith rather than by conduct and absolution was, after so long a period of eclipse, a momentous undertaking.

 

So much so in fact that attention was distracted thereby from the fact that there was one other major erroneous emphasis that needed similar correction.

 

And the simple reason why that didn’t happen was the fact that the Reformers themselves became ensnared by the same beguiling propensity that had led to its introduction in the first place.

 

Mankind just cannot resist the sense of personal exaltation that derives from being able to pronounce upon, and entrench behind, a Tablets of Stone style Word of God.

 

  In characteristic Victorian manner the Reformers thumped their Roman Catholic Bibles with such vehemence in support of ‘justification by faith’ that there was no way that they could recognise the degree to which they were perpetuating the erosion of the ‘Way of The Spirit’ by so doing.

 

 Without appreciating the disastrous sectarian and denominational results that would follow, they unwittingly endorsed the adulation of the collection of selected scriptures that the Catholic Church had enshrined and presented as a divinely ordained centrepiece of idolatrous Worship.

 

Being able to quote endless scriptures and, more to the point, by endowing them with the unchallengeable authority of being taken from a divinely inspired, and therefore verbally infallible ‘bible’ has always been irresistible to man, and unfortunately the Victorian Revolutionaries proved to be no exception.

 

If anything, fundamentalism today clings even more tenaciously to the same partial misconception, but the day may soon arrive when the error of Victorian style ‘biblical authority’ will dawn.

 

THEN, PERCHANCE, WE MIGHT BE LESS ENCLINED TO GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD

 

 

Scriptures’ as such, are an invaluable record by ‘Men of God’, many of whom were eye witnesses of mankind’s most momentous events. Certainly the writers were inspired, but not necessarily to the degree of infallibility and not beyond the limitations of their primitive knowledge of the cosmos.

 

Unquestionably the bible as such, is our most convenient and accessible means of reference for many of the ancient scriptures.

 

In fact I do not know what I would do without it, and I quote from it endlessly.

 

But that does not make it ‘The Word of God’ any more than did its canonisation by the Catholic Church long after the launch of Christianity.

 

If God had wanted a formal ‘bible,’ in addition to his gift of The Holy Spirit, He would not have waited 400 years before entrusting its production to Catholicism.

 

These are controversial facts but I see no reason to suppress them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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