Post-post.

seeing footage of babies in Africa dying in front of the bbc cameras on the late news this evening, after watching west ham beat aston villa over a pint of guinness, it got me thinking - how very post-modern.

and also, was mother theresa emergent?

i have more food in my fridge/freezer right now than a 100 children in Niger have consumed in a week. if Jesus came for the poor, the destitute & the starving, why are we trying so hard to be relevant to a society that is so entranced by big brother and small mobiles that it believes that our culture is actually one on the rise rather in decline - a model for the developing and undeveloped world.

post-ironic.

to what extent should we try to be relevant? let me rephrase that - for a wound, is salt relevant? is the society we seek to be more relevant to, interested or bothered about our post this and post that? humility, service and compassion aren’t exactly calling cards for fame and fortune or held up by our culture as things worthy to aspire to, and yet these are the very things Christ calls us to.

copious amounts have been written about theology, the correct reading of scripture, the historical Jesus etc, but isn’t the core teaching of Jesus quite clear? Love G-d and love your neighbour. is there not a danger that our desire for emergence - which comes from a strongly positive and creative motivation - could become some kind of middle class, navel-gazing, intellectual and cerebral kudos? 

out of loving G-d and our neighbour with our whole hearts,  would not the relevance & challenge to our society follow naturally?

as the church we have so often failed in our mission to be the body of Christ on earth and i believe the emergent conversation is valid. but surely if we are to emerge into something that manifests the kingdom, power and glory of G-d on earth more truely and deeply, then we need to take the simple commandments of Love and run with them - with passion, wisdom, creativity, authenticity, imagination - with all that we have within us.

how important is it to be post this and post that, in the bigger picture of a broken world in pain?

could G-d not want us to get to the point where we are post-post? for where there is knowledge, it will pass away. post-gnosis. emerge by dying to self. if we are looking for an emergent theology that will turn heads and change worlds - if we seek to express it in our lives - we could do worse than embrace 1 Corinthians 13 & Luke 10:25-37.

G-d says love, love, love. does it get any more emergent or timeless than that?

thanks all for a great forum.

mutant.

tags:

a little tongue in cheek...

hi people. i see this post has been read by a few but not commented upon. i admit that i was being a bit tongue in cheek and it was also written in a state of high angst after some disturbing news footage. hopefully my central point is not occluded by this, namely: assuming the emergent conversation has in it’s sights a more relevant and authentic expression of faith - in relation to post-modern society and ourselves within it - surely a profound rediscovery of the radically compassionate and servant heart-in-practise needs to be a part of this. i’m preaching to myself here when i say that we are maybe too much of the world and not enough in it and that this needs to be reversed somehow. ie - yes, lets be more relevant and take on board the ramifications of being in a post-modern world, but not forget the simple message of Christ, which in todays consumerist society is a call to a radical lifestyle and way of being. mutant/physician, heal thyself!

Echo

Hello Mutant … I echo everything you said above. As individuals living in a consumerist society we are contributing to the structural injustices in the world. We cannot plead ignorance or innocence.

Desmond Tutu said: “I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself to be my master. I want the full menu of rights. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

In his classic book "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger" Ronald Sider says that “our problem is not primarily one of ethics. It is not that we have failed to live what our teachers have taught. It is that our theology itself has been unbiblical. By largely ignoring the central biblical teaching of God’s special concern for the poor, our theology has been profoundly unorthodox… Those who consider themselves most orthodox have fallen into theological liberalism on this issue.”  (Hodder and Stoughton, 1997, p.64)

Clark Pinnock writes that the story of the rich man and Lazarus “ought to explode in our hands as we read it sitting at our well-covered tables while the third world stands outside.” (Clark H. Pinnock, ‘An Evangelical Theology of Human Liberation’, Sojourners, February 1976, p.31)

I see no point in re-shaping evangelical theology to make it more relevant to postmodern society if we do not also re-shape our lifestyles to show that our religion is more than just a mentally stimulating hobby. (I am preaching this to myself primarily.)

Venting

Thank you for being a much needed voice of sanity.  I had a depressing experience this weekend.  My husband and I were at a "party" (sparkling grape juice in disposable champagne glasses.)  and I was having a conversation with a woman who teaches elementary Sunday School at our Southern California megachurch.  She was upset because she accidently came across the news while she was running on her treadmill.  They were showing pictures of the devastation in Pakistan.  She was honestly shocked that "people live like that in our day and age."  This woman is a 42 year old public school teacher.  How does that happen?  As if that wasn’t disturbing enough, we were discussing "Blue Like Jazz" at our table. Actually only one other person at the table had read it.  She said (and this is a quote) "Why does Donald Miller have to make it seem like doctrine can be questioned?  Doctrine is just true and young people just don’t know that." Where do you even start when someone says that?  I’m ashamed to say I just sat there with my mouth open.  My husband had a death grip on my knee.  The woman is my senior pastor’s wife and well they provide about 40% of our financial support as missionaries.  We left the party early stopping promptly at the wine shop so we could sit in the garden and try to determine if "those people" are the space aliens or we are.  

This post doesn’t really take the conversation anywhere but it feels great to vent.   

the poverty of our mission

Hello Mutant, Phil and Paula   Thanks for opening up this topic and sharing your response to these kinds of issues. I believe you’ve touched on something highly important and the relative silence mutant observes can even be an indication of that. All forms of religiosity struggle to come to terms with the simple call to serve the poorest, because it cuts to the core of the justice of God and exposes religiosity for what it is. And we all sense it… if we dare.   The problems come when we try to take the next step. Religiosity so easily claws its way back into our thinking as we find ways of justifying reasons for NOT getting out of our comfort zones and being radical in responding to the conviction that has gripped our hearts. The quite understandable inner contradictions which Paula and her husband experienced faced with the reality of their missionary income being threatened if the boat is rocked, provides a clear, but far from untypical, example of this.   Personally, I cannot emphasise enough how important I believe it is to truly engage with the issues raised by considering the poor and God’s attitude towards them. I touched on this a little in my post "What hope for the future?" when I wrote
"…from within the West, a truly Messianic people are genuinely needed; a people who have been up close and personal with all that modernism and capitalism and materialism have to offer and said, "Yes" - to its best; "No" - to its worst and "There is more than this" to Secularism’s claim of universality and its dogmatic denial of mystery and Divinity"

and
"A Christian faith and community that can engage with an unfamiliar world and a world larger than it’s own hitherto horizons. One that can learn, learn and learn again, in order to discover, uncover and reveal a kind of heavenly success that blends sacrifice and faith, poverty and prosperity, weakness and strength, truth and experience, Scripture and community, humility and confidence."

I mean by this to add strength to Mutants suggestion that the real "emergence" from stagnant Christianity which is required is one that goes beyond passive theological debate and angst about relevance, and which instead measures it’s allegiance to "truth" by the fruit of active love; love not merely of the "one another" of our church communities alone, but of "the least of these." Since we now live in a world in which we increasingly sense that "our neighbour" can as easily be an African orphan, as the people on our street, this challenge takes on very different dimensions than those we are previously likely to have ever considered.

In practice, such a radical realignment of priorities is likely to be highly disorientating, but my suspicion is that in such a "dying," the way to life will be found. I have long believed that the "revival" that so many long for is inexorably linked to "mission." This seems to be something in principle that "emergent" groups are comfortable with. However, it seems to me that this is not infrequently because they have redefined "mission" in their own image.

In such an emergent worldview, mission no longer refers to the defiant insistence that the lost, the last and the least - in a global sense - should not be overlooked by the Gospel - to do so being in effect a denial of our faith in it’s vitality - instead "mission" is simply a new buzzword for everything from "doing the will of God" to evangelism to new forms of emergent church.

Ok, in the broadest sense, any involvement in the Missio Dei can be labelled "mission," but if so then we need to redefine and re-"brand" what the pioneers of the world Christian mission movement (including the Celtic Christians, for whom a good many of the emergent communities of UK / US can probably trace their ultimate gospel roots) meant when they spoke about mission: the reaching of unreached people groups in such a way that an indegenous reproducing Christian community exists within that group (though I concede their description would have used quite different language) — "Frontier Mission" perhaps. Why should these groups be considered a priority? Because they have zero opportunity, zero "chance" to hear the Good News unless someone, at some point in history crosses the cultural frontier and incarnates the message of God’s love to them. That’s not an issue of dogma, it’s a simple issue of justice.

Alonside this we need to "remember the poor" - by which I refer NOT to those who are simply less wealthy or even less advantaged in comparison to ourselves, which is simply patronising but in terms of - by humbly drawing alongside communities of people who are so disempowered by their poverty that they also have zero opportunity to properly hear and respond to the Good News, except that someone, at some point in history, lays down their own wealth in order to authentically engage with them, to level their playing field in such manner that the formerly disenfranchised may truly begin to live out the dignity of human existence hithertoo denied them, including the opportunity to discover the reality of Jesus Christ and his wilingness to be amongst them, even while they remain in their abjectness and poverty.

Unless emergent communities find ways of incorporating such a radical commitment to communities of the global lost, last and least, alongside - note: not instead of, alongside - the more convenient, "culturally relevant" outreaches that are more normally in vogue amongst them, I strongly suspect the seeds of their own impotence and demise will be sown from the very beginning; in x years time, it will become obvious that while the theological morass may have been stirred up, it’s capacity to uphold radical, Christian community has not increased.

Why? Because God’s commitment to the poor is so significant that to circumvent it is borderline denial of the Good News. If we truly want to understand why the Christian Community has lost the respect of the culture and society around it within the consumerist, materialist west, we might look closely at our attitudes to the global poor, in particular the unreached peoples, who expose our insipid allegiance to the message we say we believe in. In the results of such an investigation, I suspect we may well discover a greater "relevancy," - that is a struggle, an engagement, more recognisable to the society we are so keen to salt - than we might ever have expected…

Shalom!John, eternalpurpose.org.uk

emergent in practice...

firstly thanks to John, Phil and Paula for your comments - what you all said echoes what i feel God challenging me on. i find the open source site really engaging, stimulating and encouraging but with all the discussion around areas of philosophy, theology etc, it has left me wondering about how we can avoid the emergent conversation becoming just another "could have been a contender" movement.

i am currently reading Engaging the Powers by Walter Wink - for anyone who hasn’t read any of his work, do yourself a favour. in it he shows nonviolence to be at the heart of the gospel and underlines again & again just how central in God’s heart, are the poor, oppressed and downtrodden. i appreciate and value the amount of searching and researching around theology that goes on on the OS boards. however i really do feel that we need to be careful not to forget that our manifesting the gospel in our daily lives WILL put us into conflict with the domination system that currently rules the planet.

christianity lived, strikes at the heart of the status quo as it stands with "the least of these". our consumerist western society will be far more impacted by a community, servant & compassion-orientated faith and getting our post-modern ducks in a row will only take us so far along this road, to where the tarmac ends. from here it gets rocky & uncomfortable.

will i boldly go with God where i haven’t before or just say, "beam me up scottie?" the axe is laid to the root of the tree.

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