Nothing to do with Mary at all
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(This post and attached comments were moved from the Revelation 12 | Marian Significance thread. It has accidentally become a place for telling life-stories.) Purely because this seemed to be the most recent comment and therefore as good a place as any to post this: does anyone ever wonder about the identity of people frequenting this website? Andrew: urbane, polished, polite, inclusive, fantastically perfectionist scholar and with a hugely formidable intellect; Chris - sometimes gruff, learned, scholarly; John - very pastoral, probably with a John the Baptist beard, gold-rimmed specs and a twinkle in his eyes; Eric - keeps popping up from the lab, probably clutching a cup of coffee in his hand, with copies of N.T.Wright’s books in a drawer, getting ready to abandon science and go for bible college; Ivan - strict, magisterial, inquisitorial; and then there are the round-the-world theo-techies: youthful idealists from bible colleges in the mid-west; mild mannered Quakers from the outback; either that or there are some serious insomniacs out there. I get the impression that many on the site are middle-aged - tho’ Ivan comes across as relatively youthful (it’s only the youthful who can be so certain about what they think). Then there are the folk who disguise their true identities with mysterious sobriquets - like ‘Dissident Heart’ etc. del dominus - scientist, with a leaning to the whimsical in his syntax (but that’s not his real name is it?); Alarius - must be some obscure name from classical mythology - but frighteningly learned. Albanach - making shrewd side-snipes from the wings (that’s not a real name either is it?); and many more. Then there’s me. Would it be a total shock if we were to meet ‘in the flesh’? Would these happy fantasies completely collapse, bursting like soap-bubbles in the air? Or am I the only one to indulge in these day-dreams? Forgive me for these highly personal, and probably somewhat intrusive speculations. But there is to me a Canterbury Tales quality to the website - it’s full of highly engaging and attractively enjoyable characters - all on a common pilgrimage, entertaining each other on the way with our stories … Or do we only exist only as cyber voices - internet wraiths - with no existence beyond our theological opinions - who would evaporate as the morning mist in the sun if we were to be exposed to the daylight of human interaction? |
Comments
London in May
Eric, let us know your dates when you have them and we’ll arrange at least an informal gathering in London.
The dates
Fantastic! We will be laying over on our way to MZ to see our kids, so it isn’t very much time. We land at LHR the morning of the 21st and leave LCY the morning of the 23rd. That means the best day is the 22nd, although the 21st will also work (you will just see a sorely jet-lagged man, since I do not sleep on planes, even with a nice cocktail of NyQuil plus alcohol! Not nervous or anything, just pumped!).
Outing myself
I’m new to OST, so I guess I don’t have a reputation yet, but my bio is as follows:
I was a Presbyterian minister for 5 years in a southern US megachurch. I suppose I’m a classic burnout case. Two years into it, I had my first son, and I spent the next 3 years discovering that either the ministry, or my family, had to go. I like to think I made the right choice.
I’m now back in school in Wisconsin, pursuing graduate studies in Electrical Engineering. So you might surmise that my passions lie at the interface of theology and technology. I’ve seen many attempts to foster a faith community / religious dialogue through the internet, but none that I’ve come across compare to this one.
So kudos to all responsible. Which, I suppose, means all of you.
I wonder if whoever moderates / maintains this site could move these posts to a different thread. At some point, every contributing member of a community must identify themselves. And it’s my belief that a knowledge of someone’s personal history tends to make me more sympathetic with that person’s opinions. So I think it could be a fruitful enterprise.
It also brings up another topic of discussion — the internet and anonymity: when is it good, when is it bad; can authentic relationships be developed through text messaging, and if so, what are the best ways to promote this? These are not trivial questions for an “emerging theology” in a world that has become much more broadly, but less deeply, connected.
I found myself having an unexpected reaction to Peter and Eric’s exchange. As they spoke of meeting one another in London, I got a mild case of the willies. I still find the step from internet-meeting to face-to-face-meeting a little creepy — totally irrational but yet it’s there. There’s something about meeting a person IN PERSON that establishes trust on a level that dialoguing on a web site does not. Perhaps it’s the nonverbal cues. Perhaps its a latent visual form of bigotry — is there something we look for in a person’s appearance that says “safe?” I don’t know. I have many casual acquaintances (of all colors and creeds) that I would not think twice about having over for dinner. Yet I would feel uncomfortable inviting any of you because I don’t “know” you. No offense intended, it’s just an observation of the skepticism I hold toward the medium. The likelihood of any of you being clever, lonely stalker types is slim, I admit. And yet the creepiness persists.
I’m only 33 years old, am I already a technophobe?
"Alario's Tale"
Thank you Peter and each of you for these wonderful introductions. I too have been having similar thoughts about the persons with whom I’ve been sharing what are often rather personal thoughts, observations and ideas.
Not a techno-adept, I blundered into Alario, thinking it was a password rather than an online nom de plume (or de guerre, an impression I believe I sometimes give when I respond too bluntly and too quickly to someone’s post-for which I crave pardon and forgiveness from any I may have offended). The name is nothing so inspiring as myth or legend-it is a character in a film starring Denzel Washington, Meg Ryan and Matt Damon called Courage Under Fire.
I offer this not so brief portrait to avoid being an internet wraith and to reveal something of flesh and blood.
I “accepted” Christ at about age 11 in my home town of New Orleans, Louisiana in a telephone conversation with my Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher-but did not go forward at an “alter call” and was not baptized. I quit going to church and sunday school altogether at 12 and did not set foot in a church until 22.
During most of those ten years I chased girls, played football and drums in a fairly decent local “rock” band (playing everything from Van Morrison/Jimi Hendrix/Doors to Dave Clark V/Rolling Stones/Jefferson Airplane).
The sports and the music in night clubs and parties were going on simultaneously and without interruption all during Jr. High School and High School. It was exhausting and rather schizophrenic trying to be a “straight, ie. non-drug using student/athlete and a musician in a time of inexpensive drugs and “free” love, keeping two sets of friends and girl friends, all the while trying to keep friends, parents, lovers, coaches and teachers happy. It was a downward spiral in all aspects of spirit, soul and body that was, at first, almost imperceptible but which increased rapidly in velocity and, seemingly, was unstoppable and irreversible.
On a balmy, pleasant, American deep-south, moonlight and magnolia summer eve I would have ended my own life had I not had an encounter with the risen Lord, Jesus Christ who I had “accepted” ten years earlier. All of the accusations made against me by the “accuser of the bretheren” (in a wide awake terrifying walpurgis night experience in my bedroom) were true and were such that I had neither answer nor defense and ending life seemed appropriate and fair. Thinking that my parents would be unable to bear their grief gave me sufficient pause to call on God in prayer for the first time in ten years. The fear and spirit of self destruction passed and I wept for nearly an hour.
Believing I had gone stark raving mad, naturally, like all who are slow of hearing and heard of heart, I wanted a sign from God. As Jesus is far more gracious than I am smart, He gave me one.
The next night when I was at work (I also held down several jobs during this time), a friend, fellow drug taker and small time “weed” dealer called me and asked me to come to visit him and his wife at their apartment after work that evening. I demurred several times, and when he persisted, I demurred some more. Finally, he insisted and told me, and I quote verbatim from memory, “Look, Larry, I don’t want to smoke any weed, I want to talk about Jesus and show you some stuff in the Bible. I just got “saved” last night.”. When we met that evening and discussed things we concluded that our two “experiences” took place simultaneously between 10:30 PM and 11:30 PM the previous evening.
The spiritual journey has taken me back into the Southern Baptist denomination, a very large charismatic non-denominational church, a smaller charismatic non-denominational church which was esentially a cluster of “home churches” with an altogether too heavy emphasis on “discipleship”, a period of disillusionment with no church at all, the Episcopal Church in America (ECUSA), another period of disillusionment, and, finally, a Reformed Episcopal Church (REC) where we are permanently planted.
I have had several ministeries over the last 29 years, from heading up a Sunday morning outreach to a detox ward at a large municipal public hospital to teaching Sunday School to pastoring a home church. To borrow some lyrics, “what a long strange trip it has been!”.
I am 51, took my degree in History with a minor in film/TV, married to the same sweet girl for 25 years, two daughters and two sons, soon to be grandfather of three. Wife is a PhD in English (Rhetoric/Composition), youngest daughter in local college pursuing BS in Sciences, oldest daughter is married to childhood sweetheart, has second daughter on the way and has her masters in History from Berkely. Both sons are infantrymen currently serving in the United States Marine Corps. OoohRah! (in case you’re reading this sons-or any of their brothers or sisters)
I prefer the Authorized Version not just because it is beautiful prose but because I don’t believe older is always better and the manuscripts used by the translators, I think, are superior to the Vatican codex and the Mt. Sinai codex. Having said that, there is some room in my thinking for the idea of the majority text.
Favorite filmmaker is Sir David Lean. Favorite actors are Robert Shaw and Denzell Washington. Favorite actresses are Maureen O’Hara (she and my wife could be twins)and Audrey Hepburn.
My favorite movie is a tie between Lawrence of Arabia, Casablanca and The Best Years of Our Lives.
Music is eclectic: Dave Brubeck/Vince Guaraldi/Nat King Cole/Johnny Mercer for one group and Van Morrison/Beatles/Supremes/Temptations for another. Barber’s Adagio is great but depressing. Dvorak is all good and Bach, J.S. is mindbending. Way too much to go into here.
Favorite Beer: Samuel Adams(Brewer; Patriot). (Though it is family tradition on our 4th of July barbecue cookout celebration to drink Bass Pale Ale, go around all day asking each other why are we drinking that particular brand and answering each other with the cry of freedom, “Because we can!”. Stupid, silly, but very meaningful and traditional for my clan.)
Favorite Novel: another tie-R.F. Delderfield’s “To Serve Them All My Days”, C.S Lewis’ “That Hideous Strength”, Herman Melville’s “Moby Dick” and Mark Twain’s “Huckleberry Finn”.
My favorite hymn is “Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation”. Joachim Neander (1650-1680) was 23 years old, fell in with a bad crowd and went into a church to mock the foolish christians. He was converted and later served as a priest in that very church. He wrote the words as he was dying. Consider the last verse:
“Praise to the Lord, O let all that is in me adore him!
All that hath life and breath, come now with praises before him.
Let the amen
sound from his people again,
gladly for all we adore him.”
Favorite scripture is the entire letter to the Colossians.
I still love Van Morrison and my wife and I still dance to “Brown Eyed Girl” and “Moondance”. Our children like it when we do.
This has been “Alario’s Tale”. Alario is Larry Curtis. May God’s grace and peace be upon us all.
unbearded emerging pastor?
Peter, thanks for a hugely engaging contribution when you wrote your ‘Nothing to do with Mary’ post. I thought your comments showed a very interesting sense of discernment.
So, what about myself?
Well, I actually gave up my pair of gold-rimmed specs just over two years ago for some rimless ones which have been falling about, losing their shape all over the place ever since. They may get replaced this very week; perhaps the gold rims will make a comeback! Can’t help with the beard, on the other hand. Despite my eight and thirty years, happily blond facial hair grows very slowly upon me, leaving me able to go days without shaving :)
On the other hand, I loved and laughed at your comment regarding the twinkle in the eyes. Occassionally, the cares of this world do glaze it over, but it’s not long before the people around me notice the difference, jolting me out of morosity and back into relative joie d’vivre. Pastoral? Well, it’s the first time I’ve looked at myself that way, but I suppose it is something that’s been growing in me.
When I’m not pounding the keys on OST, I’m maintaining my own website - www.eternalpurpose.org.uk - and networking with people in connection with that emerging ministry and the travels it sometimes entails. I’m not presently a regular congregational attendant. I facilitate a discussion group called ‘talking shop,’ which gathers between four and ten men, twice a month in a local hostelry, to discuss theological issues in an informal manner.
I’m enabled to be devoted to all of this by the generous support of my wife (of fourteen+ years and four children) and my business partner; I began the self-employment businesses which they now individually run about nine years ago. I’m also distance-studying for a Master’s in Intercultural Studies; in between these various activities I day-dream about completing a book I’ve begun about God’s Covenant People and What we are Called to Be.
If a more expansive / inclusive meeting in London were being thought about for May: I would certainly be interested in meeting up with some other OST folk. I actually met several fellows named Chris at the People of God conference, last July, and each one I asked turned out not to be the one from the OST website - so Chris, gruff, learned, scholarly, should some of us get together, perhaps you might also reveal yourself?!
Shalom!
John
I think I'd love to sit aroun
I think I’d love to sit around and chew things over with you all in person. I really like theological give-and-take when there’s no resort to authority. (I do recognize the authority of Scripture, but don’t want someone telling me I have to interpret it their way when it seems to mean something different.)
I’m a middle-aged missionary who started off as a church planter (I’ve led or been on more than 10 new church plant teams). I helped establish a Bible college, and taught there for several years. Right now I’m working on a Ph.D. in New Testament (from a secular university) and am setting up a graduate program for my tradition’s church leaders in Asia.
I don’t like ivory-tower philosophy that speculates as a form of auto-entertainment, but I do tend to see practical ramifications for theoretical positions, and theoretical ramifications for practical tactics and strategy. My passion for the mission of the church—frequently IMO ill-founded—drives my interest in biblical theology.
What I like about this site is the community’s willingness to re-examine our own presuppositions and hermeneutical keys, and the reliance on persuasion and consensus over the authority of tradition and creed. While I think the truly effective church leaders of a post-modern age will be charismatic leaders rather than beer-hall theologians, I like to think that those beer-hall theologians will have greatly influenced the church’s leaders.
The Inquistor's Tale
In the spirit of this current thread, I thought I’d fill in the gaps about myself.
I’m 34 and worship with a small, interdenominational house fellowship here in Stoke-on-Trent. The journey I’ve taken to get here is quite convoluted, but has in some sense brought me full circle. I was reared in a mainstream Pentecostal church (Elim movement) and although I grew up in a home where the Bible was very much an open book and learned to appreciate it deeply, any real experience of the Lord in my life was strangely elusive. I was known for my above average knowledge of the Scriptures and was always sought out to represent the Church in the annual Sunday School quiz etc. and I loved to learn about the characters and events of the Bible. But God seemed always to keep his distance. I recall very often leaving the Church feeling chronically depressed, upset at seeing other young people speakingof God in terms of personal relationship and proving him accordingly. I never felt such closeness.
The result was that by my mid-teens I had drifted away from the Church and Christianity. To cut a long story short, I wound up involved in New Age and neo-pagan thought and practise for a number of years, until around 1994 when I turned my back on that and threw my lot back in with the Church, so to speak! But again, the old sterility in my walk with God was all too evident and I was again in danger of spiritual relapse by the turn of the millennium.
The real turning point was when I picked up the book ‘Rome Sweet Home’ by Scott and Kimberly Hahn which is the most uplifting and encouraging spiritual biography I have ever had the privilege to read. Here I found the story of a straight-laced Presbyterian who becme convinced of the Biblical foundation of Catholic doctrine and the presentation of it as such to the readers of this book truly spoke to my heart. For the first time I felt that God was near.
After the book, I embarked on my own study of the Scriptures and learned more, strengthening my own convictions further on the subject of Catholic doctrine etc, and realising this as the common heritage of all believers whatever tradition they belong to. In this respect, I see the Catholic faith as a potentially unifying principle. My own journey continues and I am currently in contact with the local Catholic priest with a view of consummating this act of faith by officially joining the RC Church.
Peter thought of me as ‘strict, magisterial and inquisitorial’! I hope I’m not that bad! I do tend to see things in black and white, but I pray I’m not too closed minded on issues. Minor details about myself: I enjoy reading (Homer’s ‘Odyssey’ at present), and my music taste is pretty eclectic. From the Christian rock of ‘Petra’ to Bach’s ‘Ave Maria’.
I also produce a small, homespun periodical called ‘Sacred Truth’ which seeks to excite folks about Catholic faith and to get them opening their Bibles to discover more. Hoping to expand readership if possible.
So that’s the Inquisitor’s Tale, or some of it at least. Please pray for this often all too inadequate pilgrim.
’
from the Lord
My last name is Del Signore, which is derived from the Latin name Del Dominus, which translates to “from the Lord” in English.
I was born in Northern Italy, and now live in the New York/New Jersey area, working professionally in the Graphic arts. I am 38 years old with a beautiful wife and two young kids – Michael Angelo and Kara Noelle.
I am currently jealous for “time” so I find myself reading the posts in OST rather than interacting. “Even a fool is thought wise when he keeps silent.” ( Proverbs 17:28)
del dominus
me
I realized after Mark’s recent post that I had not gone through the process of introducing myself, and though I don’t post nearly as often as some of you, I thought it would only be fair to give anyone who cares a little background info about myself.
My name is no mystery, since I was not creative enough to give myself a real pseudonym. I was born and grew up in France, where my parents were BGC missionaries until this past May (at which point they moved back to their native Ohio). We were a fairly traditional baptist family, and I inherited much of my parents’ conservatism. My college years were very formative for me, and though I "gave my life to Christ" when I was six, I have only been a serious disciple of Christ for the past two or three years.
I was married just this past August (I guess I still count as a newlywed), and am enjoying the married life quite fully. I am also by far the youngest person on this site (to the best of my knowledge) at a mere 21. Therefore, if I have some rough edges which are a cause of offense to anyone, please forgive me and attribute it to my immaturity.
I am quite often in over my head on this site, but I enjoy learning about Tom Wright vicariously through his various fans on opensourcetheology.
My passions include capoeira, electric guitar, computers, and theology/philosophy (my college degrees are in philosophy and computer science). My favorite thinkers include Walter Wink, Greg Boyd, NT Wright, Walter Brueggemann, Terence Fretheim, William Hasker, Brian McLaren, and probably a fair few others but I only have limited space.
I think that’s all for now. If I’m not very talkative, it doesn’t mean I don’t read almost every post made to this site… and enjoy it.
Cheers,
-Daniel Diederich Farmer-
May the Lord smile on you
Oh good there is a thread here,
I’ll just re-post my intro here and add a few more things
Just wanted to introduce myself.
My name is Mark Burykin. I was born in former Soviet Union. I lived here for 16 years already, you can say that I am Americanized. Currently I attend a Pentecostal Slavic church. I am a bible student and a bible teacher. I am a hardcore bible student since a few years ago, I never knew it can be this addictive.
I have finished 4-year college with a degree of science. As many of you aware, after college you usually come out a liberal Christian and I was one. Sorry if I offend any liberals here, I am a fundamentalist now. On top of that I was not a fully devoted Christian. Other thing mattered to me more then God did, while I proclaimed otherwise at that time. I was baptized 12 years ago in a Baptist Church not for the Love of God but for the fear of the Devil. Only recently I have became a fully devoted Christian. God had put me and my twin brother through hardships to calls us fully to him. My brother was in a tragic car accident, best friend died after they attended a Slavic Conference, I was suppose to be in the car with them but God had other plans for me. I never cried on any funeral before, but that funeral made me cry like a baby. Then God put me to jail, took all my money. Not that I suffered without money, I am from Russia from a Christian big family, I know what poor is and I was not suffering. Jail was just a place to think everything through. God knows what buttons to push, he don’t have to make me look in the eyes of death to realize the truth, which my brother did as he flew out of the cars window at around 100mph hitting the pavement of the highway. It’s a miracle that he did not die. Anyways that’s my life in nutshell, now I am a married man seeking to be a missionary teacher.
I would not consider my self a heavy weight theologian or anything like that. But I do teach in an adult group in my church. It was a very interesting experience how God opened up my mind and showed me the truth. Before I got married I was involved with the youth, I still consider my self a kid compare to a lot of you here. I am only 27 right now. Anyway, I would like to get to know a lot of you here. Maybe Lord sent me here to meet a few of you who have the same desires/plans as I do. Just let me know who you guys are and little about you. What are you looking to do for the Lord in your near or far future?
Hope to hear from you all
Mark B
In addition to this I see many of you are from a London. Very good, I like an international crowd, it keeps me more informed. I am from Clearwater FL, where all the hurricanes are making their home for past 2 years. Thank you for all your prayers and for Gods mercy. I also thank God for them, for shaking our comfort zones over here. We needed that.
I was reading a few of your threads, they were very interesting. I was looking for something like this for a long time. I am going to invite some of my friend to this web page as well.
Anyway, It’s nice to meet all of you brothers in Christ and God Bless all of you.
Dosvidania
Mark B.
More that's not about Mary
Very nice, Peter! I think there should be a forum topic for just this sort of chat. And, coincidentally, I was thinking similar thoughts this very morning!
Let me give a few details about me—some glimpses into my life. I am a newlywed of 8 months. I am a 32 y/o medical/graduate student at a Jesuit university near Chicago. I grew up evangelical, but have serious critique of that camp, though I still think of it as critique from within. I love the Anglican tradition, and once almost became Roman Catholic for ecumenical reasons, but the Marianism and Papism are too unpalatable. I am very sad that I cannot take communion with my Catholic friends (although, the Jesuits here would let me!). I am committed to a Vineyard church, but am increasingly frustrated in our particular environment and am learning how to hold my tongue except where it is absolutely necessary that I speak, and then only prayerfully—I am somewhat less than moderately successful. I already went to a Bible college that was real good at teaching students how not to think—some of the professors didn’t like my challenges, especially to pre-millenial approaches and especially because I didn’t have an alternative. I’ve gotten a lot better since then at not knowing more things. I love Kierkegaard and Wright. My mother-in-law is coming to visit us today for the weekend (first time since we were married).My wife and I are trying to adopt from Moçambique where she worked for a couple of years with an orphanage, but the country (MZ) has not yet complied with Hague International Adoption agreements.
On that note, we will be in London for 2 days in May, and I would love the opportunity to meet some of you!
Back to the dissertation. Thanks for the break, Peter! Hope you enjoy the ecclictic bit of information to fill out your picture better. The coffee mug part was spot on (even in lab, where I am not supposed to have it!).
Eric