Cultural hostility

The following quote is taken from a Times Comment article in which Michael Gove discusses cultural hostility towards Christianity in the UK. It was prompted by the recent fuss over the Madame Tussauds nativity tableau that starred ‘David and Victoria Beckham as Mary and Joseph with Tony Blair, George Bush and the Duke of Edinburgh as The Three Wise Men and Samuel L. Jackson, Hugh Grant and Graham Norton as shepherds, not forgetting Kylie Minogue as an angel’ (you can see Kylie in the background).

It is in the context of a prevailing cultural hostility towards traditional Christianity that the words last week of Jayne Ozanne, a senior adviser to the Archbishop of Canterbury, should be read. Ms Ozanne feared that a time would be coming when Christians were “ridiculed for their faith and pressurised into making it a purely private matter”. She may have been guilty of hyperbole when she used the language of “persecution” but the retreat of Christianity from the public square is certainly increasingly apparent. And perhaps nowhere more so than in the failure of Britain’s church leaders to raise their voices against real, and terrible, persecution of Christians across the globe.

The article makes a number of interesting points, but I thought Jayne Ozanne’s remarks particularly worth thinking about. I imagine a lot of Americans would be only too happy to see Christianity retreat from the public square a bit, but the issue has got to be more complex than that. So I’m interested to know what people think about this. What sort of public voice should the church have? Should we be worried about the ‘cultural hostility’? Do we just have to get used to being a marginalized and voiceless cultural minority or should we aspire to be recognized as unique and central influence for good in society?

cultural hostility

I have to say that I think that this is not quite as presented. I won’t deny that there is a lot of prejudice towards religion (and I use that term, rather than Christianity, advisedly). However there is a lot wrong with this:

“Ms Ozanne feared that a time would be coming when Christians were “ridiculed for their faith and pressurised into making it a purely private matter”. She may have been guilty of hyperbole when she used the language of “persecution” but the retreat of Christianity from the public square is certainly increasingly apparent. And perhaps nowhere more so than in the failure of Britain’s church leaders to raise their voces against real, and terrible, persecution of Christians across the globe.”

Christians already are ridiculed for their faith and pressurised into making a a purely private matter. What may be different is that the public expectations of the Church of England and its own response to those expectations may be changing and becoming more hostile. (And as a matter of fact Church leaders do regularly raise their voices about persecution of Christians elsewhere - journalists should know that since they do report it and they should also do their homework to remind themselves; of course there is no media storm about such voice-raisings, which is the problem, really).

As to the future; from where I sit it looks to me like more religion is going to be in public spaces not less. Islam will not cede to the public/private divide that Christians have largely acquiesced in (and let’s remember we have done so partly because it means that people of different opinions can work together more easily…). On the back of that Christins may well find that they are being asked to ‘balance’ Muslim opinion. The European human rights legislation as it affects religious adherance gives a greater necessity for religious matters to be part of the public domain and I suspect that - given the way that it is phrased - it will also enable us to challenge the assumption that somehow ‘secular’ = ‘neutral’.

Why do I think all this: I’ve seen the future made present in British Universities where matters of religion are becoming high profile public matters …

Postmodern art?

I wonder whether the exhibit at the wax museum is cultural hostility, or whether it is an example of the art of the postmodern culture with which we are grappling. Postmodernism involves the mixing of divergent elements which may appear to clash with each other. True, the sensibilities of some may be offended, but when offence is taken it may be pointed out that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” - and thus the extreme relativism of postmodernism is brought to light.

In the news media, various interviews were conducted, and opinions were expressed to the effect that many viewers did not consider the exhibit to be sacrilegious. It is quite possible that they were sincere in this because they were looking at the art through postmodern eyes. Am I offended by it? I certainly am, but then I am not postmodern even though I have shown an interest in our attempt to do postmodern outreach and theology.

I find it interesting that I was offended years ago during the era of the “rock gospel” portrayals of Jesus’ life, and yet there were those who found these not offensive at all. I was offended at certain attempts to fictitiously portray Jesus as a modern man with modern counterparts to the gospel story. But I wasn’t aware of the shift that is taking place of people’s consciousness - a shift in which I do not participate.

I find it interesting to see which celebrities were chosen to play the three wise men in the exhibit under discussion. The original wise men are supposed to have been astrologers, and if I were to pick modern counterparts I would have chosen scientists - perhaps Newton, Einstein and David Hawkings. But these men are respected. The personalities actually chosen are viewed as wise by some, but not by all. Would the astrologers visiting the land of Israel have been greeted with respect? Is this a way of saying that God’s wisdom is inscrutable?

I do find it amazing in this forum that we do not seem to recognize postmodernity when it hits us in the face. The extreme relativism and lack of truth claims must be acknowledged. But we proceed as if we can know the truth. We can start with the historical Jesus - know for sure what he was like - and proceed from there in linear fashion to construct a theology. It’s as though ideas are presented for evangelicals who haven’t learned the lessons of modernity, let alone postmodernity. Either it is possible to do theology on a postmodern basis, or else we can’t abide it. We need to disover whether or not we can have a postmodern theology, or simply attempt to appeal to postmoderns while retaining our modern foundations.

PostModernism

The wisdom of man is foolishness to God. Does that mean that Reason is suspect?

Very often, we seek ONE tool to rule them all, ONE tool to find them… because we want to use just one of our faculties to find what is true.

Modernists tend to elevate Reason above all else, even above God. Postmodernists elevate Relativism, because Reason has failed. In and of itself, postmodernism is actually a reasoned response to Modernism’s failures. If Reason has failed, the reasonable thing to do is not to trust Reason. If you cannot trust Reason, then how can you know truth?

Postmodernists see the threat of global annihilation from multiple sources, the violence being worked by “Christians” against people who have done them no harm, “Christian” Televangelists who turn out to be nothing more than fakers, “Christian” churches who raise no fingers to help those in need, “Christians” who advocate killing people who disagree with them, “Christians” who think that polluting/destroying the environment is okay, “Christians” who charge whopping interest rates to the poor, “Christians” who deny everything that the Bible stands for, and their pastors who say all of that’s okay. If Christianity claims to follow the Bible and does not, claims to be kind and gentle but turns out to be a den of vipers… how can you trust it? These are some of the failures of Modernist Christianity. And Modernist Christianity uses Reason. Reason, therefore, has failed as a path to enlightenment. How, then, can we really know the truth, since “Reason has failed us”?

And it is hard to disagree with logic like that - because they show, by use of reason, the very failures of reason and Modernism. To the Postmodernist, reason is just one tool to hand, and not a very reliable one.

Douglas Groothuis has pointed this out: Postmodernity is modernity gone to seed.

Modernism is idolatry, and postmodernism is idolatry. God is above Reason, not the other way around.

A Different Take on "Reason"

I think that you are far too kind to the argument you quote. Let’s face it, it’s just bad thinking to blame “reason” for such things. Worse, its terrible history. No one who has spent time carefully considering the writers of the Enlightenment (or Modernism in the arts) could take such a view. If anything is true of the Enlightenment, its the centrality of ethics and human responsibility. Many of their views were mistaken, but in a movement so diverse that one only shows ignorance by attacking “the” Enlightenment’s conception of reason. But things are even worse for anyone who claims that the thought of people such as Leibniz, Kant, Locke, Hume, Voltaire, Mendelssohn, Goethe, Lessing, Hegel, Musil, Kafka,Proust et al. paved the way towards televangelism and religious hypocrisy. These are far better attributed to a history of pietistic rejection of reason and to human nature, respectively.

But as to your own view, I worry far too close to fideism. Maybe you did not mean to deny reason to make way for faith when you said “God is above Reason.” If you did, though, making that move seems no better than stamping one’s foot in favour of one’s own religion. And there’s too much of that sort of thing around these days. If there is anything we must hold on to from the Enlightenment (and this week has been testimony to it), it’s that we have to do our best to make progress by careful collective reasoning and discussion. Most of the failures of the last two centuries can be explained, not as the result of this use of “Reason”, but the refusal of it.

Church-baiting?

Justin, this suggests a much more positive way forward than some of the knee-jerk reactions that the exhibit provoked. If it generates a typically postmodern tension between two seemingly incompatible sets of values - religious tradition and celebrity, church culture and popular culture - perhaps the most appropriate response is to explore that tension, to enter into the conversation, preferably in public, preferably in a grown-up fashion. The Tussauds nativity says something about our dwindling and rather sterile commitment to public forms of faith. It says something about our culture’s obsession with celebrity, wealth, sex, our vanity - there are some massive ironies in the display. But it also suggests that at some level people are willing to pose in public some really interesting questions. The problem is the church is not very good at posing in public really interesting answers - chiefly because it is not very good, as you have pointed out, at understanding the questions.

I suppose we are trying to define a space for Christian discourse somewhere between traditional religious practice (worship, prayer), the sort of interfaith issues that Andii raises, contemporary culture, issues relating to justice, etc., the agenda of science and technology, where we might have something meaningful, coherent, and profoundly Christian to say.

Of course, it’s possible that the whole thing was just an exercise in church-baiting, and the best thing to do would be to keep quiet.

predictively uneventful

Does this Tussauds Nativity present a Post-Modern ‘Offering’ replete with lazy choices? Hmmm…

For the most part: white, anglo-, caucasian icons pooled from a selection offered by 300 visitors - which might not even say much about home-grown UK perceptions but rather global tourists visiting Madame Tussauds (although how even they could select the Duke of Edinburgh and his amazing verbal faux pais collection to represent a Magus is beyond me - perhaps, PoMo has moved from Representation towards Irony and perhaps this is intentional - or is that perhaps crediting it with too much savvy)…

…If the Tussauds nativity says anything, it is disregard for historical authenticity, accurate ethnic representation, thoughtful reflection in favour of the desire to be entertained. Do you really want to engage this?

Joseph

As a matter of curiousity, has anyone in the media actually asked David Beckham how it feels to be cast as Joseph? In my limited experience of school nativity plays, Joseph was usually the good looking guy in the class rather than the most `righteous`.

with bated breath...

rebate

Surely the real problem is not Posh and Becks playing Joseph and Mary, but having Blair and Bush playing The Three Wise Men. Not because some people would question Bush’s wisdom, but because the wise men probably came from Persia or Baghdad…

Deacon

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