Who Counts as Christian?

Posted 28 January, 2010 - 01:10 by Jacob

Over at Rod Dreher’s Beliefnet.com blog, he’s wondering were the line between Christian and non-Christian sits [http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/01/atheist-pwns-liberal-christian.html].  

“The dividing line is not really between “liberals” and “conservatives” in Christianity or any other religion. After all, one can be a perfectly orthodox Christian and profess socialism as a political doctrine. No, the real line is between those who believe that religion makes statements about the the world as it is, and those who believe religion makes statements about the values and inner life of those who profess it. In other words, does religion provide an objective account of reality, or is it an expression of the subjective preferences of the person who professes it?”

The problem with Dreher’s line drawing is that it excludes an important alternative. What about the possibility of a relational Christian faith?  That is, a faith that is neither about objective statements or subjective expressions, but lived relationships with oneself, one’s God, one’s neighbor, and one’s enemy.

A relational Christian faith is a possibility that Dreher overlooks. 

 

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Comments

Re: Who Counts as Christian?

by ichthus128 - 28/01/2010 - 07:16

Absolutely, Christianity is relational. When we actually LIVE the lifestyle that God has shown us to be true through His Word it is the most-right most fulfilling thing that a human being can do. However, there are objective facts and statements that make Christianity Christianity. Without them there would be no Christianity. As far as I can tell, without object truth there would be no basis for what we believe.

What do you think?

Re: Who Counts as Christian?

by Jacob - 28/01/2010 - 19:14

Then I’m not sure what you’re talking about is a completely relational Christianity.  You seem to be talking about a variation of what Dreher is talking about.  A completely relational Christianity is not about supposedly objective facts and statements.  It is about experiential living—which is neither objective nor subjective.

Re: Who Counts as Christian?

by ichthus128 - 28/01/2010 - 23:26

Thanks for replying brother.

Ok, I think I see what you are saying. You believe that Christianity is purely based on how we relate relate to God and others and that we don’t need objective truths to necessarily describe God or how the Christian faith works. I definitely understand that the outflow of being a Christian is relational, but how did you come to the conclusion that objectivity is not needed? Is your conclusion based on the Bible or on something else, because I’ve never really heard of this kind of thinking.

I’d really like to know what you think.

Re: Who Counts as Christian?

by Jacob - 29/01/2010 - 00:35

Let me ask the same: how did you come to the conclusion that objectivity was needed?  

I don’t think objectivity has anything to do with the Bible or faith for a couple of reasons:

The word “objectivity” has a history.  “Objectivity” as a word and concept that people regularly use to make sense of the world is historically much newer than the the Scriptures that compose the Bible.  It would have been historically impossible for Jesus or any of his compatriots to use the word “objectivity” because it was not invented yet.  I would never say Jesus drove a Toyota because I know that Toyota’s were not invented then, so I would never say that the Bible has anything to do  with objectivity because that term was not invented yet.  Therefore, I think that the word “objectivity” is extra-Biblical and to use it in reference to the Bible is anachronistic.  Two good reasons not to use the word, as far as I’m concerned.

A third reason I don’t appeal to the objectivity of the Bible and faith statements is because they have become political weapons of the culture wars.  Claiming the Bible is objective has become a political weapon used by certain groups of the faithful to split followers of Jesus into first and second tier believers.  

Where did I come to faith as relational?  Not being churched is probably one of the biggest reasons.  I never had to get over being taught that faith had to do anything with objectivity. I also read any number of theologians: James K. A. Smith, Don Cupitt, John D. Caputo, Walter Brueggemann, Leslie Newbegin and so forth.  These guys offer relational and comprehensively interpretational theologies that one can usefully draw from.  Third, as a lived matter, I have come to a relational theology because experience and meaningful connections are how I believe God works.  I just don’t think God is about timeless, objective, propositions.  

Re: Who Counts as Christian?

by The world has m... - 09/03/2010 - 21:15

Jacob, What a great piece you have written. Succinct in it’s execution and delivery. You wrote “That is, a faith that is neither about objective statements or subjective expressions”. Brilliant! Faith has been transformed from a trust in God’s graciousness and care, to a set of doctrinal statements that must be affirmed. You also make some pointed comments about what relational faith looks like and how it interacts with “oneself, one’s God, one’s neighbor, and one’s enemy.” These are also important parts of Christian living. I would like to propose one more area of consideration, the Holy Spirit. There has been a lot of discussion surrounding the Spirit in the last century. Perhaps a greater emphasis on our relationship to the Spirit than ever before in history. I think we have to go back to what Paul says concerning the Spirit, that He is the sign and seal of our faith, the seal of our salvation as it were. For to be a Christian is to be indwelt by the Spirit. It is the indwelling of the Spirit that manifests itself in what you proposed as the relationships of “oneself, one’s God, one’s neighbor, and one’s enemy.” Only by the power of the Spirit, can these relationships be truly lived out. Because the Spirit draws us to Christ and gives us the power that we lack, to live as the Son. The Spirit allows the continuation of the work of Christ, exactly what it means to be Christian. 

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