Restructuring Open Source Theology

The intention behind Open Source Theology has always been that it should embody and recommend the open, collaborative and generous nature of an emerging theology. I am conscious of the fact, however, that in using it extensively as a platform for my own theology and for promoting my books, etc., I have risked abusing the spirit of the thing. It has taken me a while to decide what to do about this, but having discussed the matter with a number of friends, it now seems to me the best course of action to start a separate website for developing my own stuff and to take more of an editorial role with respect to Open Source Theology. Hopefully this will create a better space here for people to share ideas without having to reckon with, dance around, compete with or hide from my sometimes obsessive preoccupation with a post-christendom, narrative-realist, eschatologically-enhanced theology.

There is a risk that Open Source Theology will wither as a result. I certainly do not intend to stop posting here, but I would like to do more to nurture the general debate without feeling the need to assert my own point of view all the time. If Open Source Theology is to have continuing value, therefore, it will need a broader range of people to take responsibility for generating discussion around the theological challenges facing the emerging church - indeed, it may help to think in terms of having an informal editorial board.

For me this has provided a tremendously stimulating forum, and I am deeply grateful to all those who have contributed to these conversations. I hope very much that the site will continue to serve this purpose, but I have a feeling that some fundamental restructuring needs to be done if that hope is to be realized.

I have transferred the commentary material to the new site since it was mostly my work. I will continue to develop that on a sporadic basis as part of a narrative theology. Most people will need to re-register if they wish to add comments, though I have transferred users who commented on the commentary posts in order to preserve the discussions. If you think you might be one of those, try your old username and password first. I also plan to duplicate some of my more recent posts on Open Source Theology, but the originals with any attached discussion will be left in place.

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Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I hope you enjoy your fresh new microcosmic creation, Andrew. I tried logging in at the new site to make the first comment but I don’t remember my password. I don’t want a new one though, because based on your first post it looks like you’re going to revel in the most offensively fascistic aspect of your worldview. To call the slaughter of the Canaanies a "genocide" rather than a genocide suggests that you regard the Canaanites as "humans" rather than humans. That you would start your new blog by justifying Scripturally the dehumanization of non-Christian "humanity" reinforces my growing sense that it’s the essential feature of your system of thought. "Obsessive preoccupation" indeed.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I still don’t get the ‘fascistic’ charge. We had this conversation before and I thought you understood the point that by calling the people of God a ‘new humanity’ I am not relegating the rest of the world to a position of inferiority. To quote John Doyle:

Good. If in the OT Israel is to be regarded as the "new humanity," it’s a matter of categorization, of God naming them "the people of God" and setting them apart from the other nations. Israel’s separateness is geographical (the land of Israel) and relational (the covenant between God and this people). But it’s not an ontological separation between one kind of material being and another. There’s never any indication that God chose Abraham and his descendants because of some genetic or inherent moral difference they already possessed, nor did God transform the Israelites into some other kind of being (fully human or superhuman) as a result of His choosing them to be His people. The "new creation" of a microcosm composed of God’s people isn’t a new material creation like the one Genesis 1-3 presumably describes, but rather the creation of a new relational category that marks Israelites individually and collectively as "the people" among all other people.

That’s your statement and I entirely agree with it. So what about the quotation marks?

First, to use the term ‘genocide’ at all, whether in quotation marks or not, seems to me a significant departure from the tendency of much popular theologizing either to ignore or to allegorize the conquest narratives. To raise the issue, moreover, against the backdrop of the Rwandan genocide, in which Christians slaughtered Christians, is surely provocative. 

Secondly, there are many reasons to use quotation marks other than to suggest that somehow this wasn’t really a genocide or that the Canaanites were somehow subhuman - and why shouldn’t I be the one who is offended by that sort of retort? I used quotation marks partly to highlight the controversial nature of the word and partly to avoid prejudging the theological significance of the event.

Thirdly, I’m not absolutely sure that ‘genocide’ is the right word. The Canaanites are killed not because of their race but because of i) their idolatry and ii) their wickedness. That is not to suggest that the killing was therefore morally justified - it is simply a matter of describing it accurately.

So frankly, John, I am at a loss to understand how a post that sets the conquest of Canaan against the Rwandan background and highlights a parallel with the flood story can be said to dehumanize non-Christian humanity. Israel is called as a servant people to be blessed and be a blessing to the nations of the earth - a kingdom of priests for the sake of others. The conquest of Canaan is an intrinsic part of that story. Aspects of it are highly disturbing, and I want to be able openly to ask questions about that without being labelled fascistic.

Of course, if you and others still see this unpleasant tendency in the argument that Israel is conceived from the start as a microcosm, an alternative to a corrupted humanity, then let me know, and I’ll try to do something about it. But to my way of thinking, this ‘new creation’ / microcosm terminology has much more to do with rehumanizing the church - correcting the personalistic, quasi-gnostic dualism that besets much modern theology - than with dehumanizing humanity.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Andrew,

Can you explain what you envision Open Source Theology looking like in this restucturing? Being a relatively newcomer to the website I have seen it mostly as a conversation with you and your ideas. So I am just curious as to what exactly you would like the format to look like and what kind of posts you would see driving the conversation on OTS? You deal with this briefly in the post above (broader range of people — theological challenges facing the emerging church), but I am looking for a little more detailed idea, if you have one.

I would like to add that I appreciate you honest reflection on the content of the website and your interest in allowing a more free space for thought, but I share your concern that OTS may just wither without you stimulating the conversation.

chad

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I think the problem was that I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the fact that OST was too much a conversation with me and my ideas. There is a basic tension between two functions - one that to be honest has been there right from the start. On the one hand, I want to be able to develop and promote the sort of narrative theology that appears in The Coming of the Son of Man and Re: Mission. On the other, I feel that an emerging theology needs to be pursued in a way that models a generous and open engagement amongst a variety of perspectives. It seemed to me that OST was too often getting clogged up with arguments about my theology, and my suspicion is that that was becoming a deterrent to the participation of all but a few hardened veterans. That may be a misperception, but I think that the basic point is valid: an open source theology should not be dominated to the extent that this site has become by a single perspective.

It is not my intention to give up on the site, despite Peter’s plaintive response. I simply want to step back and take a more objective stance, hopefully one that will encourage a wider participation. I still want OST to be at the forefront of a broad-based search for a post-Christendom theology. Of course, it may well be that no one will pay any attention to andrewperriman.com, in which case I will quietly forget about the whole undertaking, and things will probably revert to normal. But I think it is worth a try.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

When I first happened upon open source theology and after reading the manifesto and a few postings I thought, this is an idea that is good bordering on great, bright bordering on brilliant. Why not use processes and procedures developed and adopted by the computing community to move away from expending time, energy and money on just making the hardware do what it is capable of doing toward unleashing the creativity of the community on applications and actual work? Of course, we all know that another agenda of the open source code effort was to beat Microsoft, or any other player for that matter that might acheive a stranglehold on what insisted on being a totaly unfettered exercise in human creativity and freedom.

My second thought was, okay, I get it, here is a fellow who wants to use the internet to float his own theories, benefit from the comments, questions and critique of an unpaid staff of contributors, all for the purpose of publishing, promoting and selling books, and therby, I suppose, enhancing a reputation in the community.

Upon reflection at the time, and as to the second point, I concluded that there was absolutely nothing wrong with using the website for the purpose of generating publishable material, a fact I think that was not hidden from anyone. I might comment that this activity is going on all over the internet, and elsewhere for that matter, with far less disclosure than Andrew has made, also with far less attribution of thoughts and ideas not one’s own.

As to the first point on open source code, the idea there is to take a core set of 0’s and 1’s, a compiled (who’s compiler?) kernel that has universal applicability (get the irony?) and publish it to the world such that there is no gatekeeper as far as simply making the machine run. History suggests that the original source of the open source code is almost always one person who happened upon a solution that worked. Taking that kernel, then, the computing community is free, because of the nature of the project, to go forward and develop applications, routines, and sub-routines that do work, regardless of the machine that they are run on.

So, open source code needs a center, an object, a target (a universal?) that can be adopted, adapted, appropriated or otherwise taken freely and applied, or refined and criticized, or argued about or… .

Is it any surprise then, Andrew, that your theories, comments, opinions and beliefs have been the center to this website? It is the center, core, kernel, for the time being, that serves as the object or target, around which and against which a conversation may take place. I think David Tracy’s work on conversation and the need for an exemplar is useful here, although this website and the material posted on it is far from being a "classic" as Tracy defines the term, and would refer you to his work Plurality and Ambiguity.

Also, it is my experience that every project needs a "sparkplug," an igniting force that causes combustion that keeps the pistons moving up and down and the engine running. My guess is that this particular function has proven to require far more time, energy and involvement than you, Andrew, anticipated.

For example, there seems to be a need for an editorial function. I know that the immediate reaction to this suggestion from this particular community will probably be "God forbid." Nonetheless, there is a reason why other,  institutionally sponsored websites attempting to build a stream of coherent questions and responses imposes some kind of a screening function on the comments being posted. As an example, I mention Blackwell Publishing’s (now Wiley) forums, most notably Religious Compass, known to me only because I am on the user group review team. Another site I monitor is "the church and postmodern culture." I have seen you, Andrew, exercise your prerogative by breaking off streams that seem to be wandering of course. I have also seen some contributors, on occasion, try to summarize and distill the comments on a particular thread, before commenting further. This is a useful organizing function. But it is time-consuming and tedious, to be sure.

But it was Barth who said words to the effect that doing theology is time consuming and tedious and anyone who doesn’t love it shouldn’t be doing it. I submit it is the cost of admission.

I wonder if anyone reading this post will actually see what I am doing. It will be interesting to see although my experience with my posts on this website is that they usually stop the particular dialogue dead in its tracks.

I express my gratitude to you, Andrew, for devising and implementing this website. I follow the comments closely, and have, on occasion, found useful text that is both informative and transformative. It is a worthy effort, I think, and I hope you get it dialed in the way you want it. I note that you have offered somewhere on the site that anyone who wants to share the administration of the site is more than welcome to volunteer. I take it you haven’t received many offers.

Please accept my comments in the caring spirit in which they are offered.

 Tracy

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Tracy, these are some really interesting thoughts and very much appreciated; but they will take a little while to digest. My inclination is to leave things as they are for now and see how it goes, but will keep your comments in mind.

I will, however, respond briefly to the following:

Also, it is my experience that every project needs a "sparkplug," an igniting force that causes combustion that keeps the pistons moving up and down and the engine running. My guess is that this particular function has proven to require far more time, energy and involvement than you, Andrew, anticipated.

The ‘sparkplug’ argument makes good sense - and perhaps I have underestimated the extent to which OST been kept going by my regular input. But I am still left with the feeling that there is something dishonest about pushing my consistent narrative-realist argument under the rubric of an ‘open source’ or ‘emerging’ theology. It’s not that the editorial demands of the site are too demanding. It’s simply that I feel uncomfortable about being such a dominant voice in what is ostensibly a collaborative project - not least when I have got sucked into some arduous and repetitive defences of the thesis.

I find it invidious, for example, having to decide which posts are given prominence on the front page and which remain in the ‘Other recent posts’ category. It’s too easy for me to give my own material prominence and relegate other stuff to the second rank. By relocating much of my own material elsewhere I feel I can take a more objective attitude towards the contributions of others, and perhaps in the process broaden the scope and appeal of the site.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I don’t see anything controversial in the interpretation of the Canaanite genocide, about which a great deal of mitigating material already exists. I think it is controversial to suggest that the establishment of Israel in the land was in itself the beginning of the new creation. God was at work in individuals and the nation - yes. But the new creation it was not. It may have foreshadowed a new creation; this seems increasingly to have become the conviction of the prophets. The full orbed reality of the new creation came with the microcosm of Christ, not a nation or people. Insofar as people identified themselves with Christ, they share in that new creation which is inherently him, and his, not theirs.

I think what is really controversial in Andrew’s post is something which seems to be implied, and which he may not have intended. If not, it needs to be clarified. This is the idea that somehow, a genocide in Rwanda provided a platform for a new creation, which is validated by biblical precedents. The implication is that God was clearing the ground for His new creation in Rwanda. If this is not what Andrew was saying, I wonder what interpretation he intends us to draw from the Canaanite genocide?

The events of 1994 may prompt an evaluation of what is called post-colonial Christianity and its shortcomings, and provide a better basis for a more social expression of Christian faith. But I am concerned about the lack of clarity in Andrew’s invocation of Israel’s ‘holy war’, and indeed the wisdom of invoking it in the context of internecine slaughter between people of a broadly shared profession of Christian faith.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Given the creational echoes of the promise to the patriarchs it seems to me not unreasonable to think that his descendants were conceived from the start as ‘new creation’ - and that posssession of the land constituted an essential part of that. However, I would agree that this has an anticipatory or prophetic character to it - but then so too does the ‘new creation’ in Christ: it anticipates the final renewal of heaven and earth described in Revelation 21. I understand your concern to maintain the fulness and uniqueness of the transformation that takes place in Christ, but I don’t see that recognizing the creational scope of the Abrahamic vocation jeopardizes that in any way.

You’re reading far too much into the analogy between the Canaanite and Rwandan ‘genocides’ (I think I’ll stick to the quotation marks for now). I certainly do not think that God was clearing the ground for a new creation in Rwanda. The point was merely suggestive. The post was not a reflection on the Rwandan situation at all - that was simply where my train of thought began - but on the analogy between the destruction of the unjust people of the microcosm (prior to a new creation) and the destruction of the unjust people of the macrocosm (prior to a new creation).

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I say, Well done, Andrew

I think this is a courageous and helpful step. OST has ploughed a fairly widely heralded furrow over the years and you’ve been rightly credited with being the prime mover. To take the risk of a change such as this is, to my mind, to be applouded, in line as it is with the liminal nature of emerging theology.

Personally, I will admit that the direction OST had taken — as souls more theologically deft and apologetic than me took on your thesis in depth — had over time put me off maintaining a contributive presence, as I’d enjoyed in the earliest days.

I will now consider how my recent thesis: "The Eternal Purpose of God: A Biblical Theology of Covenant, Creation and Community" might be offered as such a contribution.
It is presently 20k words, with another 10k for appendices (relevant) and footnotes (could easily be cut).

From the Abstract:

The Thesis incorporates elements of Hebraic thought into a biblical theology of covenant, creation and community.

Thus it seeks to express the message of Scripture according to its own priorities, using biblical rather than philosophical terminolog, presenting the Bible’s own message within the framework of a primarily Hebraic worldview.

To aid recognition of vital theological threads woven throughout the biblical narratives, the Thesis continuously develops a graphical ‘panorama’ of the biblical narrative.

I could have asked you personally, but I thought that your answer here might be a helpful consideration for others who might have similar thoughts and contributions.

 shalom! - john (eternalpurpose.org.uk)

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I look forward to the reconstitution of OST.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I’m dismayed that anyone would regard any sort of genocide as non-controversial while taking umbrage over whether or not the slaughter should be interpreted as ushering in a new creation. I responded on the new blog to what I regard as controversial about the Canaan genocide (without the quote marks). Thanks Andrew for giving me a password there.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Yes, that first sentence of my response to Andrew’s post was not very well put. What I meant was that a consideration of the Canaanite genocide has been very thoroughly rehearsed. There is no getting away from the disturbing and repugnant issues it raises. However, you can’t just express repugnance without taking into account and looking very carefully at all the arguments which have been expressed on the subject, which I don’t think your four points (on the other site) do.

Crucially, those who take the phenomenon of human corruption and God’s holiness as major themes of scripture may want to hold back from outright condemnation of the genocide. I would like to see far more consideration of the former before expressions of indignation at the latter. Those who observe in scripture God’s opposition to sin through his acts of judgment will take into account frequent delay in judgment to give time for repentance. This is at least implied in relation to the Canaanite massacres in Genesis 15:16, and is a constant theme of the scriptures - old and new.

Also, and this is getting away from the thrust of the original point, I think the genocide is at least one of the areas in which there is a distinction in kind, not simply degree, between God’s operations through his people of the old creation, which included Israel, and his operations now through the his people of the new creation, this side of the coming of Christ. If Israel was a microcosm of anything, it was a microcosm of many of the worst aspects of human corruption, as well as an illustration of how God worked through a faithful remnant to bring about his purposes. To my mind, these purposes were consummated in and through Christ, the inaugurator of the new creation, as described in 2 Corinthians 5:17 - “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come.”

Would God command a genocide or massacre through his people today? In the light of the above, I believe not. Is it right of God to bring an end to sin, injustice and corruption for the sake of his creation, which must also mean bringing to an end the perpetrators of corruption? I believe so, and is an issue which all of us will have to face sooner or later, if we have not already done so, and is certainly one of the main themes of scripture, old and new.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

 Andrew,

Thanks for the courage to make some changes. I’ve been blessed through your ‘prime moving’. I’ll be keeping tabs on both websites now.

 Peace,

 -Daniel- 

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

I notice, Andrew, that the new site, andrewperriman.com, consists of a compilation of your old OST posts, to which you will now add new posts. Your old posts are still here at OST too, along with everyone else’s posts that didn’t cross over the Jordan to the new place. The difference is this: here on OST your old posts have comments attached to them, whereas at andrewperriman.com the comments have been snipped off. I can’t speak for the other commenters, but I always hoped that my comments added substantively to whatever the person writing the post was thinking about. In their new home these posts now look like stand-alone essays arrayed in a display case rather than initial stimuli for messy emerging collective thought. Maybe that’s part of the intent.

As you know, old posts often generate new comments. I presume you hope that the comment strings will continue here at OST rather than starting up again at andrewperriman.com. However, over time it’s conceivable that you’ll end up with two different sets of comment strings on these old posts. So here’s an idea. If one of your motivations for creating andrewperriman.com is to have a forum not only for exploring your own ideas but also for displaying them in their pristine essay form, maybe you should continue double-posting your new posts here at OST and disable comments at andrewperriman.com. That way the discussions and debates and emergence can continue unabated here while the new display case can remain uncluttered by other people’s contributions to the collection.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

That’s a valid point. I moved a few posts over there mainly just to check that things looked right, then I started adding a link back to the thread on OST. I did have the thought that it might be helpful to keep a collection of my posts together in one place - rather like I did with Otherways. So perhaps the best thing for now is to provide a clear link on the backup posts on andrewperriman.com to the original thread.

Incidentally, another reason for making the change was that I felt the commentary material really didn’t make sense as a collaborative project since almost all the posts were mine. So I’d rather keep that separate as an integral part of my own work.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

This is an interesting move, Andrew - and one that I’m not sure what to make of.

I can certainly understand your concern over dominating the conversation at OST. However, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a regular conversation-starter. Otherwise, how do we stop OST becomming just another forum and losing its valuable contribution?

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Having just paid a visit to andrewperriman.com after an extended absence, I happened to notice what I believe is a new feature: a blogroll. The list, comprising only 6 blogs (mine isn’t one of them — is yours, dear OST reader?), is entitled "Personal Favourites." Looking at the blogs in question I wondered if the list might oughta be called something like "If I Scratch Their Backs…"

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

John, you really ought to have that cynicism seen to. But if it helps alleviate the situation, I’ve added you to the list.

Re: Restructuring Open Source Theology

Lol. It’s a nice gesture, Andrew, but you have every right to reserve the list to your favorites. I subscribe to a (free) service that keeps continuous track of the (few) visitors to my blog — what time they clicked onto the site, how long they stayed, how many pages they viewed, what city thy clicked in from. People come from a wide scattering of places across the globe, and I often wonder how it is that they’ve managed to track me down. I scour the output every day hoping against hope for evidence that I’ve had a visitor from Den Haag. Based on that criterion I infer that my blog doesn’t qualify as one of your favorites, unless you’re just as infrequent a visitor to the others on your list as you are to mine. I know you’ve never commented on my blog, though that may be true of your other favorites as well.

Blogrolls are a source of anxiety for many bloggers. He’s on mine; how come I’m not on his? — that sort of thing. There are blog wars in which one blogger, irritated at someone else’s comments, deletes his blog from the roll, prompting retaliation from the other. Putting someone on one’s blogroll implies an endorsement of that blog, which might alienate others in one’s blogging network. And there’s no question that appearing on a popular blogger’s blogroll bestows a certain cachet on the less-popular blogger. Of course I’m above all these petty egoistic calculations of prestige, but hey, I’m a psychologist, I have profound insights into the human condition.

Anyhow, I was visiting your other (exclusive) blog yesterday, reading your latest post about "metavista," writing a comment in which I recounted a (mildly critical — though I do have witnesses) vignette involving an exchange on another well-known emerging-type blog. It wasn’t until after I submitted the comment that I noticed your "Personal Favourites" list and lo, there’s this other blog I just got finished citing, one of the chosen six!

I will say that, for a year and a half, OST appeared on my blogroll. It was on there because it really was one of my favorites, and having it listed on the blogroll made it convenient for me to click through to it. I can’t remember exactly why I eventually took OST off my blogroll, but I think it was after I finally started paying serious attention to implications of your theology which I find distasteful, and which we discussed here at some length. So deleting OST from the list constituted a kind of virtual book-burning. But I must confess that I do still visit OST on a regular basis, almost against my will — call it one of my guilty pleasures.

Of course you may do what you like with your Personal Favourites list, but for the sake of your personal integrity I encourage you to remove Ktismatics. If, however, you decide that it really is one of your favorites, I’d be honored to receive visits from Den Haag even if the honor isn’t publicly announced on your list.

 Best,

 John

P.S. This seems more like a Sir Toby’s topic of discussion, but I doubt whether those anachronistic theological adventurers know anything about blogs.

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