Re: Homosexuality and new creation
Homosexuality and new creation By: Andrew (54 replies) 4 April, 2005 - 12:40
- Re: Homosexuality and new creation By: drew27 (10/08/2009 - 08:13)
- Re: Homosexuality and new creation By: Andrew (10/08/2009 - 10:18)
- Re: Homosexuality and new creation By: Jacob (17/05/2007 - 16:01)
- What's the deal? By: sbryan (07/05/2005 - 03:51)
- what grounds a sexual ethic? By: (10/07/2005 - 09:12)
- By way of an apology By: Ivan Latham (05/05/2005 - 02:33)
- Another apology By: paulhartigan (05/05/2005 - 03:01)
- But isn't the message of the Gospel that we CAN change? By: grifgraf (06/05/2005 - 10:15)
- Where there's smoke there's fire By: erlenmeyer71 (06/05/2005 - 16:39)
- Smoking was just an example By: grifgraf (06/05/2005 - 19:21)
- The gospel and gay people By: peter wilkinson (06/05/2005 - 12:42)
- Breaking the bonds of sin is hard By: grifgraf (06/05/2005 - 19:12)
- On breaking the bonds of sin By: paulhartigan (06/05/2005 - 21:59)
- Breaking the bonds of sin is hard By: grifgraf (06/05/2005 - 19:12)
- Where there's smoke there's fire By: erlenmeyer71 (06/05/2005 - 16:39)
- But isn't the message of the Gospel that we CAN change? By: grifgraf (06/05/2005 - 10:15)
- Another apology By: paulhartigan (05/05/2005 - 03:01)
- A Corruption of real love By: Ivan Latham (19/04/2005 - 02:27)
- Unnatural sexual fulfillment By: erlenmeyer71 (19/04/2005 - 16:33)
- Problematic By: sbryan (19/04/2005 - 19:37)
- Yes, and to be blunt By: erlenmeyer71 (19/04/2005 - 20:08)
- Problematic By: sbryan (19/04/2005 - 19:37)
- Love By: sbryan (19/04/2005 - 03:35)
- Born that way = Original Sin By: Ivan Latham (19/04/2005 - 07:08)
- Ivan Latham's statements about homosexuals By: (20/04/2005 - 21:04)
- Regarding Ivan. By: Alario (27/04/2005 - 00:30)
- Regarding Ivan By: paulhartigan (27/04/2005 - 03:05)
- Has anyone seen . . . ? By: peter wilkinson (27/04/2005 - 12:02)
- Regarding Ivan By: paulhartigan (27/04/2005 - 03:05)
- Let's tolerate the intolerant, too By: Chris (21/04/2005 - 14:00)
- You bring up a point I mentioned earlier to Ivan By: (20/04/2005 - 22:26)
- Treating other human beings with respect. By: paulhartigan (21/04/2005 - 04:00)
- Reason, Scripture, and Church Tradition By: sbryan (21/04/2005 - 00:49)
- Hence my suggestion By: erlenmeyer71 (21/04/2005 - 02:53)
- Regarding Ivan. By: Alario (27/04/2005 - 00:30)
- Ivan Latham's statements about homosexuals By: (20/04/2005 - 21:04)
- Born that way = Original Sin By: Ivan Latham (19/04/2005 - 07:08)
- Unnatural sexual fulfillment By: erlenmeyer71 (19/04/2005 - 16:33)
- Keep up the good work, Rob By: Ivan Latham (18/04/2005 - 20:31)
- Two Things By: 1beggar (11/04/2005 - 14:48)
- When you get right down to By: (15/04/2005 - 04:15)
- 1 Cor.10:13 By: (15/04/2005 - 10:54)
- not so much a question of degree By: Rob J. Caskey (16/04/2005 - 05:13)
- God-substitutes By: erlenmeyer71 (18/04/2005 - 18:45)
- Addressing the questions By: paulhartigan (16/04/2005 - 09:40)
-
1-1. I believe scripture i By: Rob J. Caskey (19/04/2005 - 00:35)
- Marriage as service By: erlenmeyer71 (19/04/2005 - 16:29)
- Still not sure what you're getting at here By: andrew (19/04/2005 - 01:05)
-
1-1. I believe scripture i By: Rob J. Caskey (19/04/2005 - 00:35)
- not so much a question of degree By: Rob J. Caskey (16/04/2005 - 05:13)
- 1 Cor.10:13 By: (15/04/2005 - 10:54)
- Humility on Both Sides By: sbryan (11/04/2005 - 16:57)
- overstatement By: 1beggar (11/04/2005 - 17:45)
- When you get right down to By: (15/04/2005 - 04:15)
- Inneresting tid-bit ... possible implications... By: Whitewave (08/04/2005 - 20:17)
- Homosexuality and the authority of the bible By: paulhartigan (05/04/2005 - 02:16)
- Shame, scripture and sex in heaven By: andrew (05/04/2005 - 15:32)
- Revisonist insights By: peter wilkinson (04/04/2005 - 19:46)
- Sin and semantics By: andrew (05/04/2005 - 15:21)
- Why always men? By: sbryan (06/04/2005 - 14:39)
- Why men? By: andrew (06/04/2005 - 15:46)
- Why men (continued)? By: peter wilkinson (06/04/2005 - 16:46)
- What were the women up to? By: (06/04/2005 - 18:27)
- This is exactly what I mean By: sbryan (07/04/2005 - 01:12)
- Immoderate indulgence? By: andrew (07/04/2005 - 10:34)
- Act and Attitude By: sbryan (07/04/2005 - 19:04)
- Genesis 38:9 By: erlenmeyer71 (07/04/2005 - 04:14)
- Thanks for the reminder. I wa By: sbryan (07/04/2005 - 04:53)
- Immoderate indulgence? By: andrew (07/04/2005 - 10:34)
- This is exactly what I mean By: sbryan (07/04/2005 - 01:12)
- What were the women up to? By: (06/04/2005 - 18:27)
- Why men (continued)? By: peter wilkinson (06/04/2005 - 16:46)
- Why men? By: andrew (06/04/2005 - 15:46)
- Why always men? By: sbryan (06/04/2005 - 14:39)
- Sin and semantics By: andrew (05/04/2005 - 15:21)
Re: Homosexuality and new creation
The argument, which is found in Romans 1, that God’s ‘eternal power and deity’ can be perceived in creation belongs to a Jewish dispute with idolatry: Paul’s point is that the pagan world should have understood the folly of worshipping images because the transcendent nature of the creator was apparent in the things that have been made.
The argument about the corruption of the natural world belongs in a different theological setting: the fundamental disobedience of humanity to the command of God is reckoned to have left a mark on creation itself – the point being, I suppose, that we do not experience corruptibility, decay and death apart from the created environment. I don’t think this means that creation is ‘corrupted and evil’ in a moral sense, which would be a more Gnostic view. It is a bondage to decay from which creation yearns to be set free (Rom. 8:21).
Paul attributes unnatural sexual activity not to the inherent corruption of creation but to the fact that God handed over an idolatrous people to impurity and dishonourable passions (Rom. 1:24, 26). Whether that is translatable into the more modern idea that homosexuality is an aspect of human nature, underpinned by our understanding of genetics, I don’t know.
In anycase, the biblical witness does not see a contradiction between the thought that the essential reality of a creator God is evident in creation and the sense that death, which for humanity stands as an existential judgment on disobedience, is a property of the whole natural world.