Re: Should we still be making disciples?

Re: Should we still be making disciples?

1.Hellenisation of the Christian worldview and departure from the original Jewish narrative framework

Agree that there has been both. Disagree that a course-correction as drastic as you are proposing correctly interprets the original Jewish narrative framework. The teaching (and ministry) of Jesus contextualises just as much in today’s world as it did then. Both Abrahamic narrative and Isaianic/prophetic framework point to a universal significance of Israel’s history. Jesus places himself squarely in that narrative.

Also disagree that the, accepted, Hellenisation of the Christian worldview in the early centuries produced a different faith from what would have been the case if the Jewish narrative framework had been more closely adhered to. We just have very different views of what that framework entailed.

2. The ‘community of faith’ on the margins of society as of the world.

Nothing snobbish or self-righteous here at all. There are huge problems equating 1500 years of European history with biblical Christianity. Bring ‘Christendom’ into the argument if you like, but whoever said that ‘Christendom’ (whatever that might mean) was the same as biblically-based Christian faith?

The church as community of faith (like the phrase or not) necessarily lives in tension with society and the world, and necessarily cannot be identified with the prevailing culture or society. If it is so identified, it ceases to point towards the new creation which it is called to prophetically embody. There never will be a ‘new creation’ prevailing on the earth in society or culture this side of the resurrection. That’s even where a majority may identify themselves with the Christian faith. ‘Christendom’ is therefore a highly problematic concept from every point of view, not least historical accuracy.

I agree that the historical/narrative paradigm is a good critique of the modern paradigm. I am not as much in captivity to the ‘Christendom’ or modern paradigm as you seem to think. And I don’t think you have fully understood the historical/narrative paradigm of the Jewish narrative framework - the more of which I understand, the more blatantly it seems to me to have a worldwide, universal relevance built in from the outset, throughout and to the end, which Paul, for instance, easily adopted once he knew Jesus was Israel’s Messiah.

3. Individual and corporate interpretations

I am increasingly seeing the need, and dramatic shaping effect, of the believing community as the focus of the scriptural texts - possibly more even than yourself. But these same texts never eliminated the role and responsibility of the believing individual - which seems to be where some anti-modern/postmodern thought wants to take us.

4.

Jesus’ disciples had enough trouble dealing with their own situation. Why do we imagine that they were being trained by Jesus to deal with the situation of the post-Christendom church in the 21st century? That is historical nonsense.

This is actually a sweeping generalisation. Jesus was training his disciples to deal with their situation. The principles also adapt themselves to different historical contexts, including our own. If the church has gone astray, it is by abandoning the principles in favour of what you call a Christendom paradigm, and has always done well to return to the principles. Your proposal for a ‘post-biblical’ faith opens the doors wide for - well, just about anything, since the principles of the faith abandon their historic anchorage.

5.

My argument is not against discipleship per se. Your home group experience is beside the point. I am arguing against a model of discipleship that is either too narrow (fitted to the limited religious experience of the modern church) or historically anachronistic

Discipleship always needs to be contextualised. We may not roam the countryside quite like Jesus’s disciples (although throughout history, many revivalist movements have produced such a radical detachment from the normal modes of social life and behaviour), but there is just as much a place for small groups of Jesus’s followers getting together to share and open up their lives to each other, and to work out what it means to apply Jesus’s teaching in today’s context.