re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice
The Atonement By: joeblow (58 replies) 15 November, 2004 - 14:01
- Re: The Atonement By: michwell (13/12/2007 - 01:08)
- Re: The Atonement By: jimjiminyjim (13/12/2007 - 19:13)
- Re: The Atonement By: (13/04/2006 - 20:58)
- Re: The Atonement - by Sharyn By: wray (12/12/2007 - 23:23)
- [Comment moved to new thread] By: (26/01/2006 - 06:57)
- Re: The Atonement By: (25/01/2006 - 04:34)
- Penal Substitution By: peter wilkinson (14/01/2005 - 20:46)
- Basic Elements of the Penal Substitution Model of the Atonement By: Victor_Martyr (13/01/2005 - 23:50)
- On justice getting in the way By: Khaareji (15/01/2005 - 05:28)
- "Penal substitution" stretches an analogy too far By: Chris (04/01/2005 - 21:34)
- The Law By: Qry (14/01/2005 - 08:30)
- Confused By: TheLogo (02/12/2004 - 06:59)
- Hebrews and the Penal Substitution By: Qry (31/12/2004 - 12:51)
- Re 1 and 2: By: ga_ge (31/12/2004 - 20:21)
- How does it work? By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 12:33)
- Hi Qry and HNY2U ALL! By: ga_ge (02/01/2005 - 14:58)
- Re: "Why can't this remain Mystery?" By: Qry (02/01/2005 - 16:58)
- By 'Mystery' I mean... By: ga_ge (03/01/2005 - 21:40)
- Re: "Why can't this remain Mystery?" By: Qry (02/01/2005 - 16:58)
- Hi Qry and HNY2U ALL! By: ga_ge (02/01/2005 - 14:58)
- Sacrificial System By: TheLogo (01/01/2005 - 01:50)
- How does it work? By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 12:33)
- Re 1 and 2: By: ga_ge (31/12/2004 - 20:21)
- Don't be :o) By: ga_ge (17/12/2004 - 17:24)
- Hebrews and the Penal Substitution By: Qry (31/12/2004 - 12:51)
- Atonement discussion forum topics By: joeblow (29/11/2004 - 18:03)
- Steve Chalke and cosmic child abuse By: andrew (29/11/2004 - 11:40)
- Steve Chalke's response to the EA By: joeblow (29/11/2004 - 18:08)
- timely... By: ga_ge (29/11/2004 - 17:14)
- The Parable of the Punitive Father By: Victor_Martyr (23/11/2004 - 22:49)
- Very Colorful but Perhaps not Precise By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 20:12)
- A Problem Parable By: ericboehmer (23/11/2004 - 23:28)
- The Parable of the Punitive Father By: Victor_Martyr (13/01/2005 - 15:13)
- I respectfully disagree... By: Matt (28/11/2004 - 19:12)
- First things first...? By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 13:42)
- Re: First things first...? By: (20/12/2005 - 18:42)
- Re: First things first...? By: Qry (20/12/2005 - 22:47)
- Second things second... By: (22/11/2004 - 14:45)
- Extra category? By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 15:19)
- Yup! By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 16:15)
- My suggestion would be that w By: andrew (22/11/2004 - 16:41)
- Good plan, Stan/Andrew By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 17:47)
- My suggestion would be that w By: andrew (22/11/2004 - 16:41)
- Yup! By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 16:15)
- Extra category? By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 15:19)
- Re: First things first...? By: (20/12/2005 - 18:42)
- Cosmic Child Abuse/Atonement By: (20/11/2004 - 04:10)
- ...And Justice for All? By: ga_ge (20/11/2004 - 20:15)
- Justice? Or slander against God? By: ross (20/11/2004 - 21:44)
- But we preach Christ crucified...(right?) By: Alario (21/11/2004 - 05:47)
- Good God, Charlie Brown! By: ga_ge (21/11/2004 - 15:58)
- A change in law is a change in constitution By: ga_ge (21/11/2004 - 02:24)
- One thing that disturbs me in By: ericboehmer (21/11/2004 - 00:02)
- But we preach Christ crucified...(right?) By: Alario (21/11/2004 - 05:47)
- Justice? Or slander against God? By: ross (20/11/2004 - 21:44)
- ...And Justice for All? By: ga_ge (20/11/2004 - 20:15)
- How to talk about the atonement By: (15/11/2004 - 16:50)
- Historically contingent analogies By: groundshero (22/11/2004 - 04:30)
- to joeblow By: ga_ge (15/11/2004 - 22:17)
- picking on penal substitution... By: joeblow (16/11/2004 - 13:48)
- Toning By: ga_ge (16/11/2004 - 16:32)
- Atonement By: Ken Cameron (07/07/2006 - 21:02)
- What kind of God needs a bribe to love? By: Matt (19/11/2004 - 14:17)
- National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: ericboehmer (20/11/2004 - 01:48)
- re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: davedyk (11/01/2005 - 01:22)
- freedom and responsibility By: ericboehmer (11/01/2005 - 07:03)
- National forgiveness I get; justice I don't By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 02:32)
- re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: davedyk (11/01/2005 - 01:22)
- National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: ericboehmer (20/11/2004 - 01:48)
- Toning By: ga_ge (16/11/2004 - 16:32)
- picking on penal substitution... By: joeblow (16/11/2004 - 13:48)
- 2 COR 5: 19 a) By: ga_ge (15/11/2004 - 15:05)
- 2 Co. 5:19 By: Qry (28/12/2004 - 22:33)
- Specifically... By: ga_ge (30/12/2004 - 23:49)
- 2 Co. 5:19 By: Qry (28/12/2004 - 22:33)
re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice
Eric:
Thanks for your post. I wanted comment on your item #2. You seem to be basically assuming something that I don’t necessarily take as a given. You are assuming that “necessary justice” = “punishment”.
But can “justice” just mean “making wrongs right, even if that doesn’t involve punishment”?
For example: Jon murders sally. Sally’s mother is mad. The punishment theory of justice is that Jon must go to prison to pay. But what if God’s justice had nothing to do with Jon—and everything to do with restoring Sally and her mother?
Can justice be done without punishment?