Re: What would Jesus do to the planet?
What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (16 replies) 11 December, 2008 - 18:54
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Duncan (24/12/2008 - 01:52)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: graham old (20/12/2008 - 23:38)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (21/12/2008 - 01:18)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: graham old (22/12/2008 - 21:54)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (23/12/2008 - 11:39)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Josh Rowley (24/12/2008 - 02:57)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (23/12/2008 - 11:39)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Josh Rowley (21/12/2008 - 04:59)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (21/12/2008 - 17:35)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Josh Rowley (22/12/2008 - 19:31)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (21/12/2008 - 17:35)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: graham old (22/12/2008 - 21:54)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (21/12/2008 - 01:18)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Josh Rowley (17/12/2008 - 03:47)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (17/12/2008 - 10:30)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Josh Rowley (19/12/2008 - 03:40)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (17/12/2008 - 10:30)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: mschellman (12/12/2008 - 12:56)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Duncan (12/12/2008 - 06:51)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Dan Saltman (13/12/2008 - 06:01)
- Re: What would Jesus do to the planet? By: Andrew (12/12/2008 - 11:17)
Re: What would Jesus do to the planet?
Thanks, Duncan. That’s well put - at least, I think it is; not everyone will agree.
That’s an interesting observation about the stoicheia. You may be right, but there are some difficulties with the argument.
In Galatians and Colossians what we have are ta stoicheia tou kosmou, the ‘elements of the world’, which seems odd if Paul is thinking so specifically of elements of the Old Covenant. Is the term meant to embrace more than Jewish traditions?
Paul’s usage does not exclude the idea that these elementary principles were associated in his mind with heavenly bodies, supernatural or otherwise.
Stoicheia is used in a couple of texts in the LXX to denote the physical elements (4 Macc. 12:13; Wis. 7:17; 19:18).
It is difficult to think that Peter’s readers would not have heard the word stoicheia as being in some manner a reference to the physical order when it is so closely linked to a description of the heavens passing away and the earth or the land being consumed by fire. It may be that we should think of stoicheia as having this ‘cosmic’ sense but being nevertheless part of a larger apocalyptic motif that denotes the passing away of the old order of things, the Old Covenant.
I also agree that in many instances in the New Testament gē should be translated ‘land’ rather than ‘earth’ and that this has significant implications for how we read the apocalyptic texts. My hesitation here is whether Peter’s imagery is meant to include judgment on the enemies of Israel as well as judgment on Israel itself - that is, judgment on the Greek-Roman world. You made reference to Peter’s statement in 1 Peter 4:7 that the ‘end of all things is at hand’, but notice that in the same context he appears also to speak of judgment on the Gentiles (1 Pet. 4:3-5).