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Re: One body and the problem of denominations

Re: One body and the problem of denominations

"In my mind, the Jehovah’s Witness whose heart is in the right place is as Christian as the Trinitarian, while maybe not as doctrinally correct."

We’re just gonna have to disagree on that. I’d like to have your opinion on that one, but if Jesus is God then He should be worshiped as such. If He is not God and we worship Him then we are worshiping someone other than God. I don’t think He would like that very much.

 I don’t want to get in a debate on tongues, but I do want to make a comment. You said, "I believe this gift was given to the early church to enhance its ability to spread the gospel to people of foreign nations; it was a sign to unbelievers."
I believe that as well, but I do not believe that was it’s only purpose. The references to tongues in the NT seem to speak of different things entirely. IMHO, there are four different functions to the gift of tongues (a sign to the non-believer, for interpretation, for edification, and for intercession).

I believe the primary purpose for three of them (a sign, interpretation, and edification) is transcendent praise to God. There was never any "teaching" in a message in tongues. There was tongues, followed by teaching/preaching.

"The significance of the gift of tongues and how it is to be utilized is almost completely ignored by charismatic Christians who believe speaking nonsensical gibberish is a gift from God."

I agree that the guidelines Paul gives for speaking in tongues in a public setting are largely ignored. That bothers me as it does you. However, I do believe that tongues as personal edification is a gift that is intended for all people to have that can be done anytime anywhere. All day, every day. I think 1 Cor. 14:1-5 sums it up quite well,

"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening,  encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."

Paul says, "He who speaks in a tongues edifies himself," and, "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues." Paul also says, "does not speak to men but to God," and "no one understands him." That would expalin why it sounds like gibberish to us.

"Maybe it is wrong for these things to bother me this much. Maybe I am
subconsciously setting up a straw man and attempting to set it on fire
rather than dealing with what actually goes on. I’m not sure."

I think your concerns are well grounded and that by and large the problems you have do take place to an alarming degree. Let it be known, however, that I don’t like those things either. I believe these gifts should be practiced within their prescribed order. However, for me, the bottom line is that they are for today. I’m not going to dismiss a wonderful gift from God simply because some people don’t know how to read their Bible—that would be equally wrong if not worse (remember the reaction to error thing). I can tell you also, that when something does come along in either my own experience or in those of others, I am not quick to form an opinion. I am very open to God doing a "new thing" (i.e. laughing or being slain in the spirit, etc.) I would rather err on the side of being open to such things and trusting His grace to be sufficient than to block it out and possibly miss out on something great.

"Maybe, but what I’m more worried about is how theology affects
practice. For example, I have no problem with saying the gifts of the
Spirit are relevant for the church today; I just do not like the idea
of putting that to the forefront of church practice so that all people
care about is a personal experience hardly differentiable from
non-institutional spirituality or paganism rather than a collective
calling rooted in the narratives of Scripture."

I’m with ya there. I think the thing that needs to be at the forefront is mimicing the self-sacrificial love of the crucified Savior. Unfortunately, that is the one thing that is least often discussed (*really* discussed). Greg Boyd makes an interesting observation in his book The Myth of a Christian Nation that throughout Church history people have been condemend, looked down upon, or killed for having views that are different from the mainline churches of their time, but that there has never been anyone on record being punished for not loving as Christ loved. That’s one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard.

"How would you suggest I do that? Haha."

LOL. That’s a good question. I wish I knew. Prayer & fasting would probably be a good place to start though. Maybe you could get ahold of some of the guys who’ve started new-monastic communities around the nation for some pointers. Check out Missio Dei and Old Growth for instance.

in Him,

 >>zack 

One body and the problem of denominations By: enarchay (27 replies) 2 August, 2008 - 03:59