Hi Andrew,

..it still seems to me that this desire to revert to the pattern of Jesus-discipleship arises essentially as a reaction against the excesses, hypocrisy, idolatry or ineffectiveness of the modern American church; it is of only limited value for the larger task of reconstituting the people of God following the collapse of the Christendom paradigm.

I don’t want to get off-track here, because I know you’ve discussed this elsewhere, but it seems to me that your reasoning here lacks historical credibility. Historically, the groups that have most strongly pushed for a pattern of Jesus-discipleship have been the very groups who have rejected, challenged or looked to the collapse of the Christendom paradigm.

However, that’s by the by, because I think you and Daniel reach a nice point of agreement and a helpful way to look at it. What I really wanted to say was that I think Shane’s argument - and I’ve only heard him speak, I’ve not yet read the book in question - lacks a vital aspect. To my mind, the context behind Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler was one of Jubilee. So, for the ruler to ask to join Jesus’ Jubilee program, without actually wanting to give up his money is simply ridiculous. (It would be like me asking what it takes to join a football team and when they say, “Just play footbal!”, I walk off dejected!)

I also think that the Jubilee context helps take the story beyond mere Jesus-mimicry and helps it apply more concretely today.