Andrew I have really enjoyed the dicussion here, and no apologies needed. Unfortunately, I would guess that some of what we all say is born out of an agenda. Much like the either/or scenario you presented above agenda-driven theology is also reflective of the mess we find ourselves in.

But I will once again ask a few questions. Using your metaphor above, would it not be true that we played a part in polluting the river? If that is the case then in some way we (or at least our sin) must go through the filtration plant. Otherwise it seems to suggest that our sins (pollutants) would not be accounted for in the filtration process. You do speak of washing, but to me its seems to be a different process. I may be reading to much into your metaphor as no metephor is perfect (if so I am sorry), but I thought it was at least worth mentioning.

Second, the idea of redemption as a corporate process is an idea that intrigues me. I have read some others who talk about this and I am inclined to agree with idea, but I am not able to completely grasp what is being said. Maybe you can point me to a previous post where this has been discussed or maybe it would be good starting point for a new post.