Re: NT Wright and the confusion of kingdom and new creation

Lloyd, try Antiquities 11.66 - there are two different ways of numbering Josephus. Here is the passage:

When, therefore, [Zerubbabel] had returned these thanks to God for the present circumstances he was in, and had prayed to him to afford him the like favour for the time to come, he came to Babylon, and brought the good news to his countrymen of what grants he had procured for them from the king; who, when they heard the same, gave thanks also to God that he restored the land of their forefathers to them again. So they betook themselves to drinking and eating, and for seven days they continued feasting, and kept a festival, for the rebuilding and restoration (palingenesian) of their country: after this, they chose for themselves rulers, who should go up to Jerusalem, out of the tribes of their forefathers, with their wives, and children, and cattle, who travelled to Jerusalem with joy and pleasure, under the conduct of those whom Darius sent along with them, and making a noise with songs, and pipes, and cymbals. The rest of the Jewish multitude also besides accompanied them with rejoicing. (Ant. 11:65-67)

My suggestion is that in much the same way Jesus uses palingenesia, which may perhaps connote the re-birth or re-creation of the nation of Israel, with reference to the complex historical process by which the church as a community of the Spirit of God emerged from Israel as a community of the Law of God. The early church, however, appears also to have held the belief that this renewal was a sign or anticipation of a final renewal when wickedness and death would be destroyed (1 Cor. 15:24-26; Rev. 20:11-21:8).

The symbolism of the Son of man sitting on the throne of his glory is used, in my view, by Jesus to convey to his followers the expectation that they will be vindicated for their trust in him when Israel comes under judgment and Jerusalem is destroyed. It is used in a broader sense by Paul and John for the analogous expectation that the church in the pagan will be vindicated for its trust in the announcement about God’s Son when classical paganism and supremely Roman imperial paganism is overcome.

According to your understanding, which "nation" was Josephus referring to as being "reborn" in Ant. 11. 3. 9? Please name that "nation".

Will you please give me the name of "the nation" which you think was at "war" with the Romans in AD 66-70?

Come on, Lloyd, what’s with these irritating trick questions again? You know perfectly well that I mean Israel.