Ryan,

Thank you for your response to my questions.

In an attempt to keep these posts relatively short and somewhat managable, I am going to address certain points in different posts.

I have some concerns about your statement:

"The Kingdom of God was the rule of God Israel were expecting to be established. To be ruled by God and only God and for YHWH to return to restore their fortunes and overthrow other kingdoms that were competing for rule over Israel. "

What do you mean (i.e. what is included in) "the rule of God"?  Does this include the everlasting "reign (rule) of Jesus Christ" or does it exclude it.  It seems to me that from a Biblical perspective, God is always sovereign ruler, how can it be said then that the people of Israel were "expecting some "new?" rule of God to be established other than the rule of the Greater son of David (Luke 1:32-33) — our Lord Jesus Christ, Kings of kings and Lord of lords?

Also how was "the liberation and restoration of Israel" to be brought about according to the Bible, especially the NT?

 According to your understanding when is "Jesus…acknowledged as the true King over Israel and the world, over and above competing kings, (and) the kingdom finally come."  That is — when did the kingdom finally come?  And where was it located when it did come?

While I do not disagree with you that "It was established by the suffering of the Messiah and his followers" I do not think that this statement goes to the true beginning of the kingdom.  In my understanding, the kingdom began with the "Parousial resurrection" of Matt 19:28, 24:3,27, 37, 39, 25;31; 1Thess 1:14-17; 1Cor 15:23c; Rev 3:21, 20:4; et al.

The operative portion of your statment:

 "when Jesus is walking around, the Kingdom is starting to be established. His followers announce him and follow him as king in advance to the establishment of his kingdom."

Is "starting to be established" — this begs the questions, okay so then, when was it actually established?  And by what means was it established? And where was it established?

In my opinion, Andrew seriously errs with his extension of judgment to the Roman Empire.  Again, IMO, the NT, especially Revelation, knows nothing of such a notion.

I can easily find the "wrath (of God) on Israel", but I find nothing about the Wrath of God on the greater Roman Empire in the NT, especially not in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

 Blessings,

  Lloyd