Re: The Atonement - by Sharyn
The Atonement By: joeblow (58 replies) 15 November, 2004 - 14:01
- Re: The Atonement By: michwell (13/12/2007 - 01:08)
- Re: The Atonement By: jimjiminyjim (13/12/2007 - 19:13)
- Re: The Atonement By: (13/04/2006 - 20:58)
- Re: The Atonement - by Sharyn By: wray (12/12/2007 - 23:23)
- [Comment moved to new thread] By: (26/01/2006 - 06:57)
- Re: The Atonement By: (25/01/2006 - 04:34)
- Penal Substitution By: peter wilkinson (14/01/2005 - 20:46)
- Basic Elements of the Penal Substitution Model of the Atonement By: Victor_Martyr (13/01/2005 - 23:50)
- On justice getting in the way By: Khaareji (15/01/2005 - 05:28)
- "Penal substitution" stretches an analogy too far By: Chris (04/01/2005 - 21:34)
- The Law By: Qry (14/01/2005 - 08:30)
- Confused By: TheLogo (02/12/2004 - 06:59)
- Hebrews and the Penal Substitution By: Qry (31/12/2004 - 12:51)
- Re 1 and 2: By: ga_ge (31/12/2004 - 20:21)
- How does it work? By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 12:33)
- Hi Qry and HNY2U ALL! By: ga_ge (02/01/2005 - 14:58)
- Re: "Why can't this remain Mystery?" By: Qry (02/01/2005 - 16:58)
- By 'Mystery' I mean... By: ga_ge (03/01/2005 - 21:40)
- Re: "Why can't this remain Mystery?" By: Qry (02/01/2005 - 16:58)
- Hi Qry and HNY2U ALL! By: ga_ge (02/01/2005 - 14:58)
- Sacrificial System By: TheLogo (01/01/2005 - 01:50)
- How does it work? By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 12:33)
- Re 1 and 2: By: ga_ge (31/12/2004 - 20:21)
- Don't be :o) By: ga_ge (17/12/2004 - 17:24)
- Hebrews and the Penal Substitution By: Qry (31/12/2004 - 12:51)
- Atonement discussion forum topics By: joeblow (29/11/2004 - 18:03)
- Steve Chalke and cosmic child abuse By: andrew (29/11/2004 - 11:40)
- Steve Chalke's response to the EA By: joeblow (29/11/2004 - 18:08)
- timely... By: ga_ge (29/11/2004 - 17:14)
- The Parable of the Punitive Father By: Victor_Martyr (23/11/2004 - 22:49)
- Very Colorful but Perhaps not Precise By: Qry (01/01/2005 - 20:12)
- A Problem Parable By: ericboehmer (23/11/2004 - 23:28)
- The Parable of the Punitive Father By: Victor_Martyr (13/01/2005 - 15:13)
- I respectfully disagree... By: Matt (28/11/2004 - 19:12)
- First things first...? By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 13:42)
- Re: First things first...? By: (20/12/2005 - 18:42)
- Re: First things first...? By: Qry (20/12/2005 - 22:47)
- Second things second... By: (22/11/2004 - 14:45)
- Extra category? By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 15:19)
- Yup! By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 16:15)
- My suggestion would be that w By: andrew (22/11/2004 - 16:41)
- Good plan, Stan/Andrew By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 17:47)
- My suggestion would be that w By: andrew (22/11/2004 - 16:41)
- Yup! By: joeblow (22/11/2004 - 16:15)
- Extra category? By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 15:19)
- Re: First things first...? By: (20/12/2005 - 18:42)
- Cosmic Child Abuse/Atonement By: (20/11/2004 - 04:10)
- ...And Justice for All? By: ga_ge (20/11/2004 - 20:15)
- Justice? Or slander against God? By: ross (20/11/2004 - 21:44)
- But we preach Christ crucified...(right?) By: Alario (21/11/2004 - 05:47)
- Good God, Charlie Brown! By: ga_ge (21/11/2004 - 15:58)
- A change in law is a change in constitution By: ga_ge (21/11/2004 - 02:24)
- One thing that disturbs me in By: ericboehmer (21/11/2004 - 00:02)
- But we preach Christ crucified...(right?) By: Alario (21/11/2004 - 05:47)
- Justice? Or slander against God? By: ross (20/11/2004 - 21:44)
- ...And Justice for All? By: ga_ge (20/11/2004 - 20:15)
- How to talk about the atonement By: (15/11/2004 - 16:50)
- Historically contingent analogies By: groundshero (22/11/2004 - 04:30)
- to joeblow By: ga_ge (15/11/2004 - 22:17)
- picking on penal substitution... By: joeblow (16/11/2004 - 13:48)
- Toning By: ga_ge (16/11/2004 - 16:32)
- Atonement By: Ken Cameron (07/07/2006 - 21:02)
- What kind of God needs a bribe to love? By: Matt (19/11/2004 - 14:17)
- National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: ericboehmer (20/11/2004 - 01:48)
- re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: davedyk (11/01/2005 - 01:22)
- freedom and responsibility By: ericboehmer (11/01/2005 - 07:03)
- National forgiveness I get; justice I don't By: Matt (22/11/2004 - 02:32)
- re: National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: davedyk (11/01/2005 - 01:22)
- National forgiveness and Yhwh's justice By: ericboehmer (20/11/2004 - 01:48)
- Toning By: ga_ge (16/11/2004 - 16:32)
- picking on penal substitution... By: joeblow (16/11/2004 - 13:48)
- 2 COR 5: 19 a) By: ga_ge (15/11/2004 - 15:05)
- 2 Co. 5:19 By: Qry (28/12/2004 - 22:33)
- Specifically... By: ga_ge (30/12/2004 - 23:49)
- 2 Co. 5:19 By: Qry (28/12/2004 - 22:33)
Re: The Atonement - by Sharyn
Sharyn,
It’s too bad that this discussion form has been void of discussion for awhile. Maybe we can invigorate some discussion again on this important topic of atonement.
I agree that the Biblical understanding of atonement, although multivalent in meaning, has nothing to do with Child abuse. But I will challenge Sharyn’s assumption that Jesus had to die a perfect death. Firstly their seems no evidence that there was anything about the crucifixion that of Christ was perfect. It was shameful and considered to be a curse (Deut 21:23, Gal 3:13). Secondly, we must remember that atonement in the temple is not bestowed vicariously by the death of another being, but by the application of blood which is a symbol of life (this is discussed in earlier submissions). Atonement is a result of life. I suspect that Jesus’ death was a result of his commitment to life, not his commitment to death.
It is fair to say that the N.T. writers were not exactly clear themselves on how exactly Jesus Christ atones for our sins, but we do know that the answer is found in the LIFE of Jesus Christ. The one whose LIFE could not be contained by the powers of time, death, or the law. In breaking these barriers (metaphysical, biological, social/relgious…among others)God shows that we were mistaken in our assumptions about God. God actually can be near sin. God actually can be near us. God actually is near us.
I think the next question then is not how does God atone, but how do we experience atonement? How does God’s nearness to me change things?
I invite your comments.