still tense?
Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (17 replies) 10 November, 2007 - 20:15
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (12/11/2007 - 09:50)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (14/11/2007 - 18:57)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (15/11/2007 - 12:38)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (16/11/2007 - 13:41)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (19/11/2007 - 14:46)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (19/11/2007 - 21:19)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: john (22/11/2007 - 00:41)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (22/11/2007 - 11:29)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: john (22/11/2007 - 21:09)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (23/11/2007 - 11:27)
- Resolving the tension of Pentecost? By: john (23/11/2007 - 13:45)
- Re: Resolving the tension of Pentecost? By: Andrew (23/11/2007 - 15:14)
- still tense? By: john (23/11/2007 - 21:10)
- Re: Resolving the tension of Pentecost? By: Andrew (23/11/2007 - 15:14)
- Resolving the tension of Pentecost? By: john (23/11/2007 - 13:45)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (23/11/2007 - 11:27)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (22/11/2007 - 12:54)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (22/11/2007 - 14:36)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (27/11/2007 - 15:46)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (22/11/2007 - 14:36)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: john (22/11/2007 - 21:09)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (22/11/2007 - 11:29)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (20/11/2007 - 12:26)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: john (22/11/2007 - 00:41)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (19/11/2007 - 21:19)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (19/11/2007 - 14:46)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (16/11/2007 - 13:41)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: peter wilkinson (15/11/2007 - 12:38)
- Re: Pentecost and the drama of prophetic community By: Andrew (14/11/2007 - 18:57)
still tense?
We are agreed about this, Andrew. That is why I hold your reading of one such over-arching structure in tension with my own and other readings. It adds something to how I read the scriptures and sheds additional light on things other readings shade over, even if I don’t hold to it as the ‘best’ or most helpful reading.
For your interest and in confirmation of my agreement of the need for an interpretive structure, yet as a contrast to what you read as the defining elements of the narratives, here is how I introduced my recent thesis: ‘A Biblical Theology of Covenant, Creation and Community’, (which, I believe, owes relatively little to evangelical theology):
You wrote:
I agree, I wouldn’t want to limit it only to that, but I would want to say that it was an ultimate goal that was increasingly in view as the covenant purposes of God developed through the history of Israel.
Hmmm. I read the Ezekiel verses you cite, but I don’t see anything in them that upends my reading, which was that scripture supports a / the view that God had the new covenant in mind from a long way back, precisely as a solution to Israel’s failures. The new covenant was the only context in which the kind of promises which are made in Ezekiel can find any kind of gravity. But I’m conscious that we are perhaps close enough to agreement…
It does have "all the earth" in view (v. 5). Although the NIV doesn’t bring it out very well, other translations allow for the inference that Israel’s covenant vocation has a context that is larger than them alone, indeed is on behalf on other nations. Anyway, these verses make reference to "my covenant"—i.e. the Abrahamic covenant—which clearly did have the Gentile nations in view. Furthermore, the priests of Israel were a seperate tribe, but not a seperate people. They mediated for the Israelites, but this did not lessen the fact that the whole nation was in covenant with the Lord. Thus, as the idea of the priestly nation develops in the NT, it is no surprise that its purview includes the covenant incorporation of Gentiles. This doesn’t seem to be particularly controversial.
πιστός (pistos) ἐκ, ἐξ (ek ex) περιτομή (peritomē) is not a typical terminonology in the NT for ‘Jewish believers’ as some versions translate and you make reference to. Others prefer:
The inference I have alluded to seems plain to me. I’ve looked back at our exchange, Andrew and I genuinely don’t understand why you think I haven’t responded to your points on this verse.
Wow. This pedanticism is catching…Have a nice weekend, Andrew.
Right now, I’m off to the local Christmas carnival and fireworks.
shalom! - john (eternalpurpose.org.uk)