you will surely die
Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: john doyle (120 replies) 9 January, 2007 - 11:50
- Eden pushed back a few thousand years? By: samlcarr (09/02/2008 - 12:41)
- Re: Eden pushed back a few thousand years? By: john doyle (10/02/2008 - 17:56)
- Re: Eden pushed back a few thousand years? By: samlcarr (17/02/2008 - 13:03)
- Re: Eden pushed back a few thousand years? By: john doyle (10/02/2008 - 17:56)
- Pandora's Box of deadly utopias By: samlcarr (24/12/2007 - 10:36)
- Re: Pandora's Box of deadly utopias By: john doyle (25/12/2007 - 02:25)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (04/12/2007 - 20:47)
- To Dominate and to Subjugate? By: samlcarr (13/11/2007 - 15:48)
- Re: To Dominate and to Subjugate? By: john doyle (17/11/2007 - 00:26)
- Re: To Dominate and to Subjugate? By: samlcarr (25/11/2007 - 11:39)
- Option 6: One has to break the egg... By: samlcarr (27/11/2007 - 13:29)
- Re: To Dominate and to Subjugate? By: samlcarr (25/11/2007 - 11:39)
- Re: To Dominate and to Subjugate? By: john doyle (17/11/2007 - 00:26)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: buddy (10/11/2007 - 23:17)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (11/11/2007 - 16:51)
- Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 - Contrasting Natures of God By: samlcarr (22/10/2007 - 14:49)
- Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 - Contrasting Natures of God By: john doyle (23/10/2007 - 18:58)
- Re: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 - Contrasting Natures of God By: samlcarr (01/11/2007 - 22:13)
- Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 - Contrasting Natures of God By: john doyle (23/10/2007 - 18:58)
- Gender, sexuality and all that stuff. By: samlcarr (07/10/2007 - 20:47)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (27/09/2007 - 16:29)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (28/09/2007 - 16:21)
- Genesis 2-3 By: john doyle (02/10/2007 - 16:15)
- Re: Genesis 2-3 By: jhimm (02/10/2007 - 19:54)
- Re: Genesis 2-3 By: john doyle (03/10/2007 - 13:09)
- you will surely die By: john doyle (05/10/2007 - 19:57)
- Re: you will surely die By: john (08/10/2007 - 21:37)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (09/10/2007 - 23:21)
- Re: you will surely die By: samlcarr (10/10/2007 - 07:43)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (12/10/2007 - 04:29)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (12/10/2007 - 23:32)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (13/10/2007 - 04:08)
- Re: you will surely die By: samlcarr (13/10/2007 - 09:00)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (13/10/2007 - 04:08)
- Re: you will surely die By: john (12/10/2007 - 10:11)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (12/10/2007 - 23:38)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (12/10/2007 - 19:58)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (13/10/2007 - 10:13)
- Re: you will surely die By: samlcarr (12/10/2007 - 08:26)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (12/10/2007 - 23:32)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (12/10/2007 - 04:29)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (10/10/2007 - 07:36)
- Re: you will surely die By: samlcarr (10/10/2007 - 07:43)
- Re: you will surely die By: john doyle (09/10/2007 - 23:21)
- Re: you will surely die By: enarchay (06/10/2007 - 02:02)
- Re: you will surely die By: samlcarr (05/10/2007 - 21:27)
- Re: you will surely die By: john (08/10/2007 - 21:37)
- you will surely die By: john doyle (05/10/2007 - 19:57)
- Re: Genesis 2-3 By: john doyle (03/10/2007 - 13:09)
- Re: Genesis 2-3 By: jhimm (02/10/2007 - 19:54)
- Genesis 2-3 By: john doyle (02/10/2007 - 16:15)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (28/09/2007 - 16:21)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (19/09/2007 - 23:34)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (21/09/2007 - 20:24)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: john doyle (22/09/2007 - 01:58)
- Polytheism or collaboration? By: samlcarr (25/09/2007 - 12:44)
- Garden in the world By: john doyle (25/09/2007 - 15:45)
- Polytheism or collaboration? By: samlcarr (25/09/2007 - 12:44)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: john doyle (22/09/2007 - 01:58)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (21/09/2007 - 20:24)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Spiritboi (01/04/2007 - 20:36)
- was it or was it not? By: samlcarr (02/04/2007 - 15:46)
- was Adam created immortal? By: john doyle (07/04/2007 - 08:54)
- Re: was Adam created immortal? By: Spiritboi (08/04/2007 - 00:57)
- was Adam created immortal? By: john doyle (07/04/2007 - 08:54)
- was it or was it not? By: samlcarr (02/04/2007 - 15:46)
- The promise of death By: samlcarr (30/03/2007 - 21:09)
- Re: The promise of death By: john doyle (31/03/2007 - 16:49)
- Assuming society By: samlcarr (01/04/2007 - 10:32)
- Re: Assuming society By: john doyle (01/04/2007 - 11:08)
- Assuming society By: samlcarr (01/04/2007 - 10:32)
- Re: The promise of death By: john doyle (31/03/2007 - 16:49)
- recreating myth By: samlcarr (25/02/2007 - 19:55)
- Re: recreating myth By: john doyle (26/02/2007 - 08:47)
- the same old story? By: samlcarr (26/02/2007 - 20:37)
- back to 2nd base By: samlcarr (26/03/2007 - 09:41)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: john doyle (28/03/2007 - 22:17)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: samlcarr (29/03/2007 - 20:12)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: john doyle (30/03/2007 - 09:43)
- God's own country By: samlcarr (30/03/2007 - 10:05)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: john doyle (30/03/2007 - 09:43)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: samlcarr (29/03/2007 - 20:12)
- Re: back to 2nd base By: john doyle (28/03/2007 - 22:17)
- back to 2nd base By: samlcarr (26/03/2007 - 09:41)
- the same old story? By: samlcarr (26/02/2007 - 20:37)
- Re: recreating myth By: john doyle (26/02/2007 - 08:47)
- flashback By: samlcarr (12/02/2007 - 01:15)
- One mankind or two? By: samlcarr (13/02/2007 - 01:27)
- Re: One mankind or two? By: john doyle (13/02/2007 - 23:51)
- Whither Job? By: samlcarr (14/02/2007 - 00:54)
- Re: Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom By: freespirit (18/02/2007 - 09:18)
- Whither Job? By: samlcarr (14/02/2007 - 00:54)
- Re: One mankind or two? By: john doyle (13/02/2007 - 23:51)
- One mankind or two? By: samlcarr (13/02/2007 - 01:27)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: gymbrall (02/02/2007 - 18:40)
- almost talmudic By: john doyle (02/02/2007 - 15:16)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (01/02/2007 - 20:02)
- monkey business By: john doyle (02/02/2007 - 11:01)
- Golly! By: peter wilkinson (02/02/2007 - 12:44)
- Re: Golly! By: samlcarr (02/02/2007 - 13:15)
- Golly! By: peter wilkinson (02/02/2007 - 12:44)
- monkey business By: john doyle (02/02/2007 - 11:01)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": By: freespirit (29/01/2007 - 07:32)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: danutz (31/01/2007 - 01:03)
- reading from inside the story By: john doyle (31/01/2007 - 21:08)
- Re: reading from inside the story By: peter wilkinson (01/02/2007 - 15:00)
- open possibilities By: john doyle (01/02/2007 - 15:36)
- Re: open possibilities By: Russ (02/02/2007 - 14:15)
- Creation, sin, death and evolution By: peter wilkinson (01/02/2007 - 17:28)
- open possibilities By: john doyle (01/02/2007 - 15:36)
- Re: reading from inside the story By: peter wilkinson (01/02/2007 - 15:00)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: freespirit (31/01/2007 - 07:23)
- reading from inside the story By: john doyle (31/01/2007 - 21:08)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: freespirit (30/01/2007 - 07:55)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (31/01/2007 - 00:13)
- swimming along nicely By: john doyle (29/01/2007 - 14:46)
- time and sequence By: samlcarr (29/01/2007 - 17:36)
- Not waving but drowning By: peter wilkinson (29/01/2007 - 17:16)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: peter wilkinson (29/01/2007 - 12:57)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (28/01/2007 - 20:34)
- Oscillating persectives in the Genesis 1 narrative By: john doyle (29/01/2007 - 11:33)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: dissident (28/01/2007 - 05:10)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (28/01/2007 - 08:58)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (28/01/2007 - 14:24)
- elohim speaks By: john doyle (28/01/2007 - 18:40)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (28/01/2007 - 14:24)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: samlcarr (28/01/2007 - 08:58)
- let them enjoy their soup By: john doyle (24/01/2007 - 07:24)
- Time for the next course? By: samlcarr (24/01/2007 - 08:44)
- Re: Time for the next course? By: Russ (25/01/2007 - 00:01)
- two short replies By: john doyle (25/01/2007 - 08:43)
- An alternative literal reading of Genesis 1 By: john doyle (26/01/2007 - 11:00)
- two short replies By: john doyle (25/01/2007 - 08:43)
- Re: Time for the next course? By: Russ (25/01/2007 - 00:01)
- Time for the next course? By: samlcarr (24/01/2007 - 08:44)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: peter wilkinson (23/01/2007 - 22:38)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: peter wilkinson (22/01/2007 - 14:52)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (22/01/2007 - 22:11)
- Welcome future mythic voyagers By: john doyle (23/01/2007 - 17:51)
- Re: Welcome future mythic voyagers By: samlcarr (23/01/2007 - 19:36)
- Welcome future mythic voyagers By: john doyle (23/01/2007 - 17:51)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (22/01/2007 - 22:11)
- weighty words By: john doyle (21/01/2007 - 19:17)
- biig mouthfulls By: samlcarr (22/01/2007 - 06:27)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (18/01/2007 - 23:28)
- higher to lower By: samlcarr (19/01/2007 - 16:40)
- Re: higher to lower By: john doyle (19/01/2007 - 17:09)
- Re: higher to lower By: samlcarr (19/01/2007 - 19:51)
- Re: higher to lower By: Russ (20/01/2007 - 09:57)
- Re: higher to lower By: samlcarr (21/01/2007 - 08:50)
- Re: higher to lower By: Russ (20/01/2007 - 09:57)
- Re: higher to lower By: samlcarr (19/01/2007 - 19:51)
- Re: higher to lower By: john doyle (19/01/2007 - 17:09)
- an alternative Biblical reality? By: john doyle (19/01/2007 - 16:01)
- higher to lower By: samlcarr (19/01/2007 - 16:40)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: Russ (13/01/2007 - 19:27)
- Genesis 1 - Any Possibilities? By: samlcarr (18/01/2007 - 04:01)
- Authorial Intent in the Creation Narrative By: john doyle (16/01/2007 - 12:53)
- 1+2= By: samlcarr (12/01/2007 - 18:40)
- theistic intuition By: john doyle (13/01/2007 - 16:27)
- Re: Genesis 1 as "True Myth": 5 Possibilities By: peter wilkinson (09/01/2007 - 12:55)
- sources of truth about the Creator-God By: john doyle (11/01/2007 - 14:29)
- Re: sources of truth about the Creator-God By: peter wilkinson (12/01/2007 - 06:19)
- who is in the details? By: john doyle (12/01/2007 - 12:12)
- Re: who is in the details? By: peter wilkinson (12/01/2007 - 14:40)
- will the mists never part? By: john doyle (12/01/2007 - 16:20)
- Re: will the mists never part? By: peter wilkinson (12/01/2007 - 18:35)
- will the mists never part? By: john doyle (12/01/2007 - 16:20)
- Re: who is in the details? By: peter wilkinson (12/01/2007 - 14:40)
- who is in the details? By: john doyle (12/01/2007 - 12:12)
- Re: sources of truth about the Creator-God By: peter wilkinson (12/01/2007 - 06:19)
- sources of truth about the Creator-God By: john doyle (11/01/2007 - 14:29)
you will surely die
I’d like to ask Andrew about his post on Romans 5:12-14, but the Fall is necessary background for Paul’s discourse on sin and death, so I thought I’d start here.
In Genesis 2:17 Yahweh issues a command to Adam, coupled with a dire warning: from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die. After awhile the Serpent comes along: You surely will not die, he tells Eve, for God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil (Gen. 3:4-5). As it turns out the Serpent is right about the second half of his claim: when Adam and Eve at the fruit the eyes of both of them were opened (Gen. 3:7), and Yahweh acknowledges that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil (Gen. 3:22).
What about the dying bit: was Yahweh right, or was the Serpent? Clearly Adam did not drop dead on the day he ate from the tree, otherwise Yahweh wouldn’t have kicked him and Eve out of the Garden, they would never have had children, and so on. Genesis 5:5 says that Adam lived 930 years, mostly after his expulsion from the Garden, and then he died.
Maybe Adam became mortal when he ate the forbidden fruit? But God tells Adam he will die on that day. Adam’s eyes were opened on that day, just as the Serpent predicted. Maybe Adam died spiritually, being thrown out of the Garden and separated from God. But why didn’t Yahweh just say "in the day you eat the fruit I will kick you out of the Garden"? And Genesis 5 says that Adam died — same word — hundreds of years later.
What interpretation makes the most sense of Yahweh’s warning to Adam that "in that day you will surely die"?