Yes, I am sure there are many options.

And yes, I do consider substitutional atonement/penal substitution whatever other big words people use for it “elaborate, cosmic, metaphysical”.

And yes, I have sins that need forgiving.

No, I don’t think it is simple at all. Nothing in the Bible is simple. If it were, there would be no need for this site, for debate or discussion, for 2000 years of history of division, divisiveness and schism in the Church.

And no, I was not suggesting we should not give attention to his words here. Only that I am deeply confused by this entire discussion. It started with a sarcastic quip about my sig quote (which is a description of the Japanese notion of wabi-sabi, btw) and has blossomed into something much bigger which I am still at a loss to see the significance of.

And I say again, since this is only one of four gospel accounts of Jesus’ death, and the other three fail to support this specific quote, I think we run a risk of getting over-excited if we give it too much weight. I am not advocating -no weight at all-. Just that I am confused as to what it is we are seeking to find in -one word- which in all likelihood Jesus never actually said. John takes far more poetic license than the other gospels, John was written far later than the other three, and is attempting to articulate a theology far more complex than the other three.

Could it not be that the author of John is the one making connections between Psalm 69 and Jesus’ death and so put those words into Jesus’ mouth to make the connection? Is that another option to consider? Or is that heresy/blasphemy/some other pejorative that suggests I’m going to hell?

~jhimm
—
nothing lasts.
nothing is finished.
nothing is perfect.