Re: God as Hypothesis?
Re: God as Hypothesis?
The stimulating discussions among Paul, Peter and Jacob have reminded me of a book that I am currently reading entitled “The Resurrection of Jesus: Dom Crossan and Tom Wright in Dialogue.” I think the thread has already moved beyond this issue, but I don’t get the chance to go on OST very often…
Peter Wilkinson wrote “But as regards the historicity of the New Testament, and the resurrection of Jesus in particular, the testimony of the NT itself is that the story depends on its factual basis - as far as anything can be proved to have taken place.”
Here are two quotes from Crossan from the book on the subject:
Referring to the harrowing of hell… “that I have great trouble seeing literally. Let me admit it. If I take that literally, that means that I think that the people who said it were literal. Then there would be hundreds of empty tombs around Jerusalem. it wouldn’t be a matter of checking out one on Easter Sunday, but seeing how many empty ones. So I will concede that maybe I like the harrowing of hell, at least I place a lot of emphasis on it, and Tom does not,… It you take the harrowing of hell, I think it will push you toward the metaphorical. If you don’t talk about it, you might be talking about Jesus’ raising, and that is much easier to take literally.” (pg. 27)
“I see now two routes before us. We can argue about mode: Is the resurrection to be taken literally or figuratively? Is it maybe, as Tom has suggested, a literal resurrection for Jesus, metaphorical for Christians, literal again for everyone? Or might it be metaphorical for Jesus, literal now for everyone who is a Christian, again metaphorical at the end? We can go on debating that. It seems to me that we have been debating it for two hundred years, and we have reached an impasse; nobody is persuading anyone else about it that I can see…. if you want to debate mode, what has to be taken literally, what has to be taken metaphorically, it is a perfectly valide debate. But there is something else: the question of meaning.” (pg. 29)
Even though I personally believe in a factual resurrection as advocated by Wright, I have gained a greater appreciation for folks like Crossan through this book. I guess what I appreciate about both of them is that they do take the discussion “personally” in the sense that both of them want to talk about action and the consequences of that belief be it literal or metaphorical.
Again, Crossan says, “Now if I take that spectrum, from 100 percent literal to 100 percent metaphorical, …Wherever you take it, … any way you take it you are committing high treason (against Caesar). That’s what scares me a little bit becaseu we’ve been doing it for two hundred years. I don’t see much evidence of it changing people. And, it seems to me that it’s the great magnificent cop-out… could we spend as much time talking about putting the resurrection of Jesus, the general resurrection, into practice…”
Crossan is surprisingly convicting, even though I disagree with a lot of what he says.
Carlos
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: heffe (10/07/2007 - 09:00)
- THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: jazzact13 (22/06/2007 - 13:52)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: mentalrover (29/06/2007 - 13:13)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: paulhartigan (23/06/2007 - 10:51)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: jazzact13 (02/07/2007 - 20:02)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: mentalrover (03/07/2007 - 09:57)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: peter wilkinson (23/06/2007 - 12:37)
- NT Wright on the resurrection By: paulhartigan (26/06/2007 - 01:51)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: TomH (09/07/2007 - 22:56)
- Evidence By: paulhartigan (10/07/2007 - 03:56)
- Re: Evidence By: TomH (10/07/2007 - 05:31)
- Evidence By: paulhartigan (10/07/2007 - 03:56)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: jazzact13 (02/07/2007 - 20:15)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: paulhartigan (03/07/2007 - 03:37)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: danutz (28/06/2007 - 15:17)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: total_loser (01/07/2007 - 17:16)
- Hypotheses about the resurrection By: paulhartigan (01/07/2007 - 21:30)
- Re: Hypotheses about the resurrection By: peter wilkinson (02/07/2007 - 14:08)
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- Re: Historical evidence for the resurrection By: total_loser (03/07/2007 - 17:09)
- Re: Historical evidence for the resurrection By: paulhartigan (03/07/2007 - 21:26)
- Re: Historical evidence for the resurrection By: total_loser (03/07/2007 - 17:09)
- Historical evidence for the resurrection By: paulhartigan (03/07/2007 - 01:51)
- Re: Hypotheses about the resurrection By: peter wilkinson (02/07/2007 - 14:08)
- Hypotheses about the resurrection By: paulhartigan (01/07/2007 - 21:30)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: total_loser (01/07/2007 - 17:16)
- Re: NT Wright on the resurrection By: TomH (09/07/2007 - 22:56)
- Hmmm... interesting.. VERY interesting By: paulhartigan (24/06/2007 - 11:33)
- RE: Can a Scientist Believe in the Resurrection (Wright) By: total_loser (25/06/2007 - 01:34)
- NT Wright on the resurrection By: paulhartigan (26/06/2007 - 01:51)
- Re: THE NEED FOR DEFENDING THE FAITH By: jazzact13 (02/07/2007 - 20:02)
- Worrying away at the bone By: paulhartigan (13/06/2007 - 10:53)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Jacob (13/06/2007 - 14:35)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: peter wilkinson (14/06/2007 - 11:40)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: paulhartigan (14/06/2007 - 03:01)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Jacob (14/06/2007 - 15:23)
- Jesus changes lives is an empirical fact ? By: paulhartigan (14/06/2007 - 21:13)
- Re: Jesus changes lives is an empirical fact ? By: Jacob (14/06/2007 - 22:26)
- Jesus changes lives is an empirical fact ? By: paulhartigan (14/06/2007 - 21:13)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Jacob (14/06/2007 - 15:23)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Daniel D. Farmer (13/06/2007 - 15:25)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Jacob (13/06/2007 - 16:08)
- Re: Worrying away at the bone By: Jacob (13/06/2007 - 14:35)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: total_loser (11/06/2007 - 23:02)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 00:17)
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- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 05:40)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 07:09)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 15:24)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 16:11)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 16:53)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 18:15)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 19:04)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Daniel D. Farmer (12/06/2007 - 19:50)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 21:11)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Daniel D. Farmer (12/06/2007 - 19:50)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 19:04)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 18:15)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 16:53)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 16:11)
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- Re: Resurrection as metaphor By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 11:32)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Jacob (12/06/2007 - 15:24)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 07:09)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (12/06/2007 - 00:17)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: ninjaaron (08/06/2007 - 12:47)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: jazzact13 (08/06/2007 - 22:01)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: peter wilkinson (08/06/2007 - 10:20)
- More on God as Hypothesis By: paulhartigan (09/06/2007 - 03:34)
- Re: More on God as Hypothesis By: Jacob (09/06/2007 - 18:05)
- Re: More on God as Hypothesis By: peter wilkinson (09/06/2007 - 14:36)
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- Re: Belief, superstition and gullibility By: peter wilkinson (10/06/2007 - 23:28)
- My view of faith By: paulhartigan (12/06/2007 - 00:35)
- Re: Belief, superstition and gullibility By: Jacob (11/06/2007 - 00:10)
- Re: Belief, superstition and gullibility By: peter wilkinson (10/06/2007 - 23:28)
- Belief, superstition and gullibility By: paulhartigan (10/06/2007 - 13:44)
- More on God as Hypothesis By: paulhartigan (09/06/2007 - 03:34)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: jazzact13 (07/06/2007 - 21:44)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: danutz (13/06/2007 - 18:54)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: jazzact13 (15/06/2007 - 13:51)
- jazzact13,
Are you then By: danutz (15/06/2007 - 20:48)
- I feel we can safely accept By: jazzact13 (22/06/2007 - 13:41)
- I’m just curious how far By: jazzact13 (16/06/2007 - 17:36)
- the roots of fundamentalism in Chicago... By: danutz (16/06/2007 - 22:23)
- jazzact13,
Are you then By: danutz (15/06/2007 - 20:48)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: jazzact13 (15/06/2007 - 13:51)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: danutz (13/06/2007 - 18:54)
- God not a hypothesis but.... By: paulhartigan (07/06/2007 - 01:26)
- Re: God not a hypothesis but.... By: peter wilkinson (07/06/2007 - 15:03)
- Re: God not a hypothesis but.... By: paulhartigan (08/06/2007 - 01:21)
- Re: God not a hypothesis but.... By: Jacob (07/06/2007 - 20:27)
- Re: God not a hypothesis but.... By: peter wilkinson (07/06/2007 - 15:03)
- Re: God as Hypothesis? By: Andrew (06/06/2007 - 09:34)

Contradictions in the Gospels: Problems or Opportunities?
Day One: A Sir Toby's Creation Myth
A Generous Orthdoxy - Brian McLaren
The Lost World of Genesis One - John H. Walton