some of my thoughts,

some of my thoughts,

some of my thoughts, stacy…

1) When you refer to ” the act of jesus descending into hell to set the captives free”, I assume you’re thinking of Eph.4:9, and perhaps conflating that with the historic version of the Apostle’s Creed, in which it is affirmed that Christ “descended into hell”? W. Grudem has done an interesting historical study of this particular statement in his systematic theology, and has articulated concisely a case that the original credal affirmation was a descent into Hades, i.e., the grave (functioning much like the Hebrew concept of Sheol). Calvin had a different understanding of its significance. More importantly, it is generally accepted that Eph.4:9 is NOT an affirmation of a descent into hell. It literally reads, “he descended into the lower parts of the earth”, though “parts” is a contested reading of the Greek text. Thus the NIV renders it, “he descended into the lower, earthly regions”. If “parts” is to be kept, it is probable (in my mind) that it refers not specifically to “the earth” but to the entire cosmos as understood by the ancient world, and as contemplated in this context, of which the earth was the lower portion. Hence, the NIVs rendering would be accurate, irrespective of the textual question regarding “parts”. The reference then is to the incarnation ala Phil.2:6ff.

Jesus set captives free not in hell, according to Scripture (Lk.4:18), but on earth in the redemption he accomplished there, and there, in that terrestial arena, was preached (cf. 1Tim.3:16).

2. Regarding your suggestion that “…perhaps then, only evil, the beast, and hades are eternally damned, and the sea of humanity, fully redeemed by god alone, from “every tribe and every nation” stands in the sea of glass beneath the throne of the lamb.”… The problem is the judgment scene in chapter 20 would explicitly contradict this (e.g., 20:14-15). Moreover, it is clear in chapters 21 and 22 that there will be those who will NOT be welcome into the eternal kingdom (e.g., 21:8), having been cast outside of it (e.g., 22:15), just as Jesus had solemnly warned his audience (e.g., Mt.8:12). Indeed, there are literary cycles in Revelation, but it would seem that in the culmination of chapters 19-22, there is a singular climax to the book, with (at least) chapters 20, 21 standing as a coherent, narrative unit (though I would be prepared to argue that 19:11-21:8 is part of one ‘cycle’, of which 21:9ff. is a digression, reflection on, or elaboration of the new Jerusalem introduced in 21:1-2).

I am honestly sorry to hear that your experience has led you to feel that such questions are unacceptable within the ‘church’. I hope you’ll find that such need not be the case.

a storyteller's view of eternity By: stacy (49 replies) 14 September, 2006 - 00:24