i’m new too “D,” and find it fascinating myself. and i follow you as well as anyone, so no worries, i’d say. curious about this “apocalypse of Peter” now.

Daniel - how is this not a central tenet? i am not being obstinate, i’m seriously asking. i think i was taught that our eternal salvation was the central tenet of our faith. how is this not of import when understanding and/or defining that concept? why would we need his salvation except for eternity? otherwise, what we have in christ is merely a great model for conduct. then we can simply line him up with other great men and enjoy our “beautiful world.”

i see no reason to disagree that adam and eve were expected to live forever “in their bodies.” but when they were not able to, because of their disobedience, what happened to them? if they were sent from the garden so that they could not eat of the tree of life and remain forever separated from the creator, what does that say about where they are now? is that ‘forever’ quality dormant in the dust of their bodies until the resurrection of the dead? and then they will arise with new ones? interesting thought. but what arises then? where is the essence of who they were? where did god’s breath go? it was of him and he is without beginning or end. mysterious, elusive with no earthly way of describing. i love your words: “whatever can be said about God and Jesus, we are here at the borders of language.” but i would differ on the second statement: “In any case, whatever made Jesus God, I see no reason to assume we possess anything like it.” i would say it is the “breath of god” that qualifies us as being “like.” not the same, god and jesus are clearly “other,” but we are above the animals because god breathed himself into us.

keep speaking to me, i am ready to be shown how i cling to faulty thought or misrepresented history.