John,

It feels like you are reading an entirely different post from the one I wrote. Please do not attribute speech by anyone else to me. I speak only for myself, and no one else speaks for me. You have, after 3 posts, failed to address a single point of discussion, but have instead dismissed my attempts at engaging you constructively. However, for the record, I will one last time set to right the misrepresentations that you are making of my posts.

As already stated, I think the gospel of Jesus is the only hope for the world. I am extremely proud of my Western heritage in so far as it has attempted torealise that hope, and am regretful of the areas in which it hs failed. The times that we have failed are because of a mix of ignorance and self-interest. I have no interest in trying to condemn the motives of my fathers, or for that matter to make them all saints. Their contributions have been great and will be respected for centuries to come. However, their failures in certain areas have had massive consequences, and we need to deal with these consequences.

The situation on the slave coast and other parts of Africa is a matter of public record. Please explain how my refering to those facts makes me a puppet of people with evil agendas. Apart from the role of slavery in destroying parts of Africa, and the west’s profit from this, an understanding of the role debt has played in keeping Africa in poverty is now commonly accepted. I’m proud that many of our political leaders now have the courage to do something about it. This only came about through an honest reflection on what we have done in Africa. Similarly the role of developed nations in sponsoring civil wars is well understood, and some steps have been taken in response to this, for example in the boycotting of conflict diamonds. This change has also come about through honest reflection, not rhetoric. As you obviously have a massively different persepctive on this, I would appreciate it if you would help me by articulating your alternative understanding of the situation rather than simply belittling my ignorance.

I did not say President Bush should not have taken a stand against N.Korea. However, I hoped to show that the increased persecution was always going to be a likely consequence of the way he articulated his stand. From what I know, I think that Kim Jung-Il is probably an evil man. The persecution of Christians in N.Korea is an evil act. To say so does not mean that we can not try to understand why they are doing it and to see if we had a hand in the causal chain that brought it about. If we can identify the causality, then maybe we can work to prevent it. I’m sorry if I misunderstood, but I thought that that was the whole point of this conversation!

However, if it is more important to you to maintain that our fathers have had no hand in any of the ills that the world has seen, then we are talking at cross purposes and living in different realities.

If we are trying to work constructively in the world, rather than to simply engage in damning rhetoric, we need to understand others as human beings, capable of great evil, but on the flip side capable of great good. If we can understand under what circumstances we and others are more likely to do good than evil, then maybe with the help of God we can make the world a better place. If we seek to understanding each other and constructive interact with all people, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then our prayers that God will bring his kindom to earth are not just empty words.