Resurrection as 'reading back' from later spiritual experiences
Can we teach an old dogmatism new tricks? By: Andrew (31 replies) 3 September, 2003 - 16:39
- Submission versus Reason By: Sceptic (23/06/2005 - 17:09)
- Reason is not in opposition to Revelation By: hungertruth (23/06/2005 - 19:47)
- One reason why Karl Barth By: Pluralist (12/08/2005 - 16:36)
- Barth, reason, revelation and pendulums By: peter wilkinson (12/08/2005 - 19:34)
- Barth and redeemed reason By: Lawrence (16/08/2005 - 00:13)
- Regarding >In fact he was By: Pluralist (16/08/2005 - 11:47)
- You're pretty certain about faith ... By: Lawrence (18/08/2005 - 10:53)
- There are quite a number of By: Pluralist (18/08/2005 - 22:19)
- Thanks, Pluralist By: Lawrence (19/08/2005 - 12:35)
- Resuscitation - Resurrection By: peter wilkinson (19/08/2005 - 12:59)
- Resurrection terminology By: Pluralist (19/08/2005 - 18:30)
- Resurrection as 'reading back' from later spiritual experiences By: peter wilkinson (19/08/2005 - 20:17)
- Conceptual misleads By: Pluralist (20/08/2005 - 17:48)
- The other way round By: Lawrence (20/08/2005 - 22:23)
- >They testified to what they By: Pluralist (22/08/2005 - 03:28)
- Let's Amputate Faith Altogether! By: hungertruth (21/08/2005 - 21:16)
- Faith for me is a shorthand By: Pluralist (22/08/2005 - 03:39)
- Faith, morality, reason and the knowledge of God By: Lawrence (21/08/2005 - 22:58)
- The other way round By: Lawrence (20/08/2005 - 22:23)
- Conceptual misleads By: Pluralist (20/08/2005 - 17:48)
- Resurrection as 'reading back' from later spiritual experiences By: peter wilkinson (19/08/2005 - 20:17)
- Resurrection terminology By: Pluralist (19/08/2005 - 18:30)
- Resuscitation - Resurrection By: peter wilkinson (19/08/2005 - 12:59)
- Thanks, Pluralist By: Lawrence (19/08/2005 - 12:35)
- There are quite a number of By: Pluralist (18/08/2005 - 22:19)
- Reason, Culture, Spirit, and Resurrection By: hungertruth (16/08/2005 - 19:24)
- Fallen reason & credo ut intelligam By: Lawrence (16/08/2005 - 23:44)
- Of course I have a faith By: Pluralist (17/08/2005 - 04:10)
- A man of your times! By: Lawrence (17/08/2005 - 14:37)
- Entering the world of pluralism By: peter wilkinson (17/08/2005 - 12:02)
- Of course I have a faith By: Pluralist (17/08/2005 - 04:10)
- The resurrection, 'faith presuppositions' , religious jargon etc By: peter wilkinson (16/08/2005 - 23:37)
- Fallen reason & credo ut intelligam By: Lawrence (16/08/2005 - 23:44)
- You're pretty certain about faith ... By: Lawrence (18/08/2005 - 10:53)
- Barth, Borg, and neo-orthodoxy By: (16/08/2005 - 09:03)
- Regarding >In fact he was By: Pluralist (16/08/2005 - 11:47)
- our understanding in By: (14/08/2005 - 00:05)
- God a projection of culture etc By: peter wilkinson (15/08/2005 - 18:35)
- Religious traditions and God(s) By: hungertruth (15/08/2005 - 01:46)
- The main issue is the By: Pluralist (15/08/2005 - 17:33)
- Barth and redeemed reason By: Lawrence (16/08/2005 - 00:13)
- Barth, reason, revelation and pendulums By: peter wilkinson (12/08/2005 - 19:34)
- Reason Alone? By: Sceptic (24/06/2005 - 01:57)
- Christians Categorically Reject Reason By: (03/07/2005 - 20:48)
- One reason why Karl Barth By: Pluralist (12/08/2005 - 16:36)
- Reason is not in opposition to Revelation By: hungertruth (23/06/2005 - 19:47)
Resurrection as 'reading back' from later spiritual experiences
Didn’t the spiritual experiences occur after the resurrection sightings? Before that, the disciples seemed to have given up, gone back to their former occupations - just one more failed messiah. The Emmaus road account falls into this category. It wasn’t as if they were developing some sort of religious mania, (or depressive psychosis) which erupted into claimed sightings. It was after the claimed sightings that some sort of regathering and expectation seems to have arisen.
The mention of the resurrection appearances to 500 people at the same time contains a crucial sub-clause: many of those to whom Jesus appeared, Paul says, were still alive at the time of writing. In other words, they could have been cross-questioned as witnesses. They must have been pretty rock solid witnesses to be relied on so confidently.
The sudden cessation of appearances is also noteworthy. Why didn’t the disciples go on claiming that they were having resurrection sightings and experiences? Why not perpetuate this to the present day? Make it into a test of spirituality - and qualification for climbing the hierarchy? A very good way of ensuring religious control, as well as attracting attention.
The idea of the church fabricating a resurrection mythology at a later stage (and I’m assuming Pluralist means that this mythology is not promoted as mythology, but dressed up as history) depends on sufficient distance in time from the events so described to make them less susceptible to investigation. But many would have been alive at the time the events occurred (death of Christ, resurrection, Pentecost etc) when the accounts started to circulate in the form we now have them. The charge of a mythologising conspiracy would have been the obvious and easiest one to make by Jews and Romans. Why was such a charge never made?
The issue of Jesus’s kingdom statements and prophecies is clearly very important - and has been the basis of discussion on this site. It’s also, as you probably are aware, the basis of Tom Wright’s redevelopment of the quest for the historical Jesus. But it’s not as if it poses issues on which the credibility of Jesus or the Christian faith stands or falls. It’s just that there is a lot of discussion as to what he meant in some of his statements.
If I were setting out to develop a resurrection mythology on the basis of disappointed expectations and suppressed religious mania, I could think of far better ways of doing it than we have in the gospels. It’s not that you don’t have a case to make, Pluralist, it’s just that I don’t think it stacks up very well.